New design: sample pics

[Abby]

Hi guys

The site is growing well, and we're getting a lot of new visitors who are looking for free stuff. I am all for having free samples of the actual images in the members area (plenty of sites show tiny sample images that SAY ON THEM "images in the members section are larger", which is just CRAZY! Why should anyone pay to see something they have no idea what it's going to look like?

They show a tiny sample of one or two of their best models, and expect you to pay $25, $30, or ever $40(!) per month. That really annoys me, I'd never sub to a site like that, tho I used to email them and say what I thought. Some wrote back and said that larger samples would mean more strain on their server, and higher bandwidth charges.

To me, that always seemed a pathetic excuse, but maybe there is a grain of truth. There is around 10 Mb of free samples on this site, which is about 9.8Mb more than most other sites seem to have. Bandwidth charges lately have been astronomical, tho I figured that's more due to a huge influx of new members (cos there's a lot more stuff in the members area than there is in the free area, of course). I know how much the site is delivering in total each day, but I don't know how that is divided up.

However, I have a team of programmers working on that issue right now, so I hope to ave an answer soon. That does not alter the fact that there is still too many free sample pics on the site anyway. So, with the new design, our plan is to remove the two free sample pics from each model's bio page, and have a dedicated page that has a selection of free sample pics that changes weekly.

What I'd like to know from you guys is, how much did you rely on the free sample pics when you were considering signing up? Did you even know they were there? Did you download them ALL? Or did you see a post on a newsgroup, and signup right away, without exploring the site?

Obviouslyt, I want to get new members, but if it's going to cost me more to get them than the money I get from their membership!

The more money I get, the better the site becomes. Every single cent goes directly back into the site - new models, locations, gear. I am not drawing a wage from the biz yet, and I am not likely to while it's in this stage of growth. I'm working hard to get this site better, and I'd love your feedback on this issue (or any issue!).

Thanks.

Abby

[kumaraguy]

And in response to your question on exactly how and why i joined your site ....
I came across a posting on another site that offers free daily pics and I was so impressed that I immediately hit the link to your site and after viewing one or two sample pics ( some of which were censored mind you so once I realised that I didnt download any more samples..( I have no interest in seeing a lot of censored pics, it defeats the whole purpose ..)} I just had to have the real thing..http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif tho I did try to resist the urge for one or two days but I always knew I was going to join..And I also had the feeling that I would enjoy being a member as well... So much so that I am now joined up on the 6 month plan..I might also add that yours is the first site I have subscribed to in the last 3 years ...Pretty much for the reasons you have alluded to, but price being the ultimate reason, yours being the first site I have come across that I have been able to afford (or justify the cost) to join http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Another reason also why your talk of price increases worries me.... I cannot ( and will not) pay more for any reason ( I am sorry about this because if it comes to that I know it will be me that is the loser http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/sad.gif )

I would think that knowing which parts of your site are receiving the most hits by members and visitors alike would the main basis on which to make improvements to both the functionality and performance of it ..
Any way this is the biggest post I have ever made and I am exhausted by the effort of it .... I am off to see what Tahlia has got up to in her latest update http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Keep up your efforts, they are appreciated here http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[kumaraguy]

And notice how long it took me do do it as well ....

[Abby]

Hiya, Kumaraguy

Firstly, on the billing issue. If the price on the site went up on the site, it'd only go up for new members, not existing ones. If you left and came back later, you'd (probably) have to rejoin at the higher rate, but if you stayed a member, you'd stay at the rate you signed up at.

I'd probably also email everyone who has ever been a member, and give them three weeks to get in and sign up, before the price rise. I say "probably" cos none of this is set in stone, just ideas that I'd like everyone's feedback on.

Keep in mind that if the site keeps growing the price HAS to go up - there's no choice. I really feel the need to go to two new models a week. At that stage, we'd probably have seven (or at least six) updates a week, where I'd expect it to plateau. That's open to debate, tho. Not now - that's way in the future!


With regards to censored pics, they are censored out of a sense of public sensibility. While I think it's clear that reasoning adults will see what the site is about when they hit the front page, kiddies may not, and I don;t think it's right that they should be able to access gaping vaginas. The samples provide an _indication_ of poses and quality. It's made clear that the pics in the members area are not censored at all.

I have mode K's post about the boards to the relevant thread.

Abby

[kumaraguy]

http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Excuse my outburst; I am usually quieter than that
I feel better now
Thanks Abby
K

[sybiandude]

The free sample pics weren't a big factor in me joining the site back in January. I'd seen your pictures of Jill on another site late last year, & as soon as I realised you were running your own site I was hooked!

Usually, however, sample pictures would be the main thing I consider before deciding whether to join a site or not.

If I hadn't been fortunate enough to catch the JanesGuide review I very much doubt I'd have even known of AW's existence until Arsby's sterling efforts in Usenet recently.

[timidly]

(Hi "guys???" You know, I was almost going to suggest in the "Board" discussion that the presence of gals would perk up the Message Board. But I was too lazy to go back to the user profiles and see whether sex could be easily - or was being - indicated. Support for voluntary inidication could be considered...)

Regarding samples, I downloaded almost all of them on several visits over the course of a week before I became convinced I HAD to join. As much as I do admire ALL of your models, I'm afraid I am picky, and looking at all your samples convinced me that even a month's membership appeared WELL worthwhile. They seemed to present an openness that gave me a very positive feeling about your site. And eeing the size of the images also was a big contributing factor. (You do have really big ones, Abby ;-)

Would cutting down the size of the samples somewhat - and retaining one or two careully identified full size ones - help?

I'm not sure what you'll do when do get as big as the Galleria ;-)

Guy, by the way.

[Abby]

with regards to reducing the size of the samples, I _really_ don't want to. It just seems SO dumb to me, to do that. One of the biggests elling points of the site the large, clear, quality images. Reducing the size (either by JPG compression, or pixel dimensions) is going to work against us, I feel.

Thanks for your feedback, and I will consider doing it again, if nothing better comes along.

abby

[ruffie]

I read the review of your site in Janesguide. I found it to be a very intriguing review, which caused me to look at your site. I enjoyed the sample photos and downloaded them all. My screen resolution is 1280X1024 pixels and the size of the photos is great. The resolution of these photos is the best I have seen on the net. Sometimes it seems as though I'm there on location with you, a very nice feeling by the way. Not sure how you get the subjects to relax and open up as they do, but you obviously have a knack. The sample photos were one factor in motivating me to join the web site. I was able to see that your models represent quite a wide variety of young women and I admired their courage for posing. I would have joined though after seeing a few representative photos. I don't think it would hurt you to reduce the number of samples. I wish you continued success. http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/wink.gif

[timidly]

Reduce the pixel dimensions of the samples, jigger with compression & sharpening to maintain quality, and clearly point guests to one or two full size samples. As much as I appreciate them, my decision to join a site is not based on technical quality or site design. It's based on content - which you refreshingly made abundantly available. If a limited number of samples doesn't happen to include a model or two I find especially fetching - I'm not likely to join.

Actually, I'd probably prefer access to the thumbnails (with a full-size sample or two.)

Sounds like the real solution is to up the price just a wee bit ;-)

[arsby]

I think maybe someone with a slow modem who downloads a few of those theoretical "stepped-on", smaller samples and joins the site will be disappointed and frustrated when they find that all of the pics are big and take long to download.
Remember that the reason only a few folks post here to the boards is that many of the members are illiterate, and can't understand that small samples are not representative of what's at the site. (Bad joke #1.)

Timidly's (great name) suggestion about including some or all of the thumbnails along with the couple of full-size samples sounds like an idea to consider.

Y'know how in real estate they say that what people want is "location location location"? In this business it's "content content content". Let 'em know what you've got (51 beautiful new Australian girls, count 'em, 51, strip sequences, closeups, spreads, butts, toys, pee, toenails!) and they'll come running. (Cum running? Bad joke #2!)

[timidly]

I did neglect to consider those folks in the Outback (and in my big city!) who don't have broadband access, Arsby. (It's a wonder they have it in my neighborhood.)

My final comment on shopping for "porn" (of course I don't mean to denigrate your art, Abby) on the Internet? - "Show Me The Money!"

I probably should see that movie.

[kumaraguy]

Out here, way past the Black Stump and not far from Timbuctoo ( where there is no cable or broadband or whatever it is ), we like 'em big..
pics that is..
.. the girls can be small and delicate http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif
The idea of showing all the thumbnails (or a few ) would be a good one..from my experience, it works http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[Abby]

Hiya, K

The problem with thumbnails is that if I show ALL the thumbnails for a certain model, it's going to create a much larger load on the server than the current array of full-size free samples! There is a heck of a lot of pics on the site, and each thumb is about 1.5k each.

I guess it's unlikely that every person is going to download every thumb, but it's not just the size issue. When someone downloads a single picture from the site, there's a GET request made of my server, which checks if you have permission to see that file, then it sends the file to you. That takes processor power - just as much power for a 4mb zip file, as for a 1.5k thumbnail.

So, for a page of thumbnails that's 25 GET requests (actually closer to 32, if you include the page itself, and all the other little graphics), placing 25times the load on the server for just that page. Chances are, people are going to look at more thumbnail pages than they can free samples, currently, so it will significantly increase the load on the server.

The server can handle that kinda load, it's not running anywhere near capacity yet, but I gotta think to the future. Ideally, I'd like to set up a system that the site can stick with.

Lastly, while it seems obvious, then, to not allow guests access to EVERY thumbnail page, offering them access to ONE page per model is not really representative enough of what the model does - and it'd be a big pain to pick and set a specific page for each model.

So, those are my reasons for not doing it that way. I do like the idea, but it's not practical,unfortunately.

Thanks for thinking, tho. Sorry to be such a wet blanket. :/

Abby

[kumaraguy]

Yes, it all does seem rather obvious when you put it like that http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Gave me a headache just reading about it, let alone trying to cope with it http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[arsby]

Now, wait, let's be creative here.
As my kid says, "Let's think outside our heads."

If "GETs" are a problem, how about providing one index page for each model, maybe 24 representative thumbnails on the page, so our potential member can see from the teeny pictures that the model undresses, does some spreads, with some nice closeups of her toenails (http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif). So instead of two free pictures on each page, there will be two free pictures and an index page.

My 2 cents. Well, my 25 cents. Inflation.

[Abby]

Arsby,

The whole idea is to reduce the load on the server, so if we had thumbs AND sample pics, that's MORE load on the server.

Also, making a thumbnail page like that for 52-odd models is more work than it's worth (tho I agree it might be "useful".

abby

[damarvelbunny]

May i throw in my two cents?

Actually, the sample pics were very influential in my joining. You applied the drug pusher formula very well: you got me hooked on the real thing (full size, representative pics), then made me pay for more. And i like the fact that there on the models bio page; i liked reading the bios as part of looking at the pics. (Incidentally, something you've gotten away from, using quotes, even negative ones from the models on the bio pages was nice; i'd like to see you go back to that).

As for the bandwidth, here are a coupla ideas. They're just ideas, of course, but maybe they'll help:

1) What about only one sample pic per model; that would cut that portion of the current load in half.
2) Would preventing right click saving on the sample pics help? i don't know the logistics of that, but i know many sites do it. It would be a deterent, at least.

-da marvel bunny

[timidly]

I've joined a heck of a lot of sites with fewer samples - but that was in my youth.

What about D. Archives, Abby? They have 3 samples pics from each series. Different business model? (Forgive me if I shouldn't mention them by name!)

Xcuse me - I have to get back to Genevive's pics now...

[Abby]

Hiya

Yes, Darchives.com does have a good idea. Models are divided into sets of around 40 pictures, most models have four to five sets. Each set has a sample page, where there are three representative images, one is full size, and the other two are reduced by about 65% (about four times as big as a normal thumbnail). Darchives is a pay-per-download site, and about twice as expensive as my site, tho that is hard to compare well, cos on darchives, you only pay for what you want to see, whereas here, you pay for everything, like it or not).


There are a few reasons why I don't do samples that way, tho. First is that it's a lot of work. Second, I don't shoot sets that are limited to 40 pics. All of my sets (as in, location; setting) are much larger, at least 100 pics. And, my sets are not really "set based". Darchives has organised the whole site around the concept of "sets" (as in, Paige does some gardening, gets boards, and inserts her green thumbs into herself", or "Charlie does the washing up, gets wet, has to change out of her clothes", etc. Content on my site is more _model_ based.

Having one fullsize sample and two smaller ones would make just a bigger load on the bandwidth, and a minor increase in load on the processor, when the goal is to reduce bandwidth.

So, yes, Darchives.com is a different business model (one I was considering changing aw.com to, actually, that of pay-per-download, but I have since decided against it), and no, I don;t mind mentioning it. It's run by a close friend of mine. I can highly recommend it, in fact, tho if you like large pictures, you won't find them there (to my endless frustration!).

Abby

[kumaraguy]

Hi Abby,
Can you go down and give your server a good kicking ...
I've just sent several "gets" , a couple of "gimmee's" and a "koff it up ya %*^#@% S.O.B. " but it wont let me have Tahlia no009...
Thanks http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[Abby]

Indeed, not sure what this has to do with sample images, K, but it's fixed now. thanks for that.

Abby

[kumaraguy]

Ta http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

( coz I had to put it some where an it woz in here that we woz talking of gets and servers an stuff .. )

[Abby]

Damarv

Thanks for your post. With regards to one pic per model, in theory it'd cut the usage in half, but it also might make it more than half current, as ppl download one sample pic of EVERY model, instead of two pics of SOME moddels, if you know what I mean?

People being people always want a free lunch.

Your second point, of preventing a right-click-save-as would not help (I have never seen that before, don't even know if it is possible? Viddude?), cos once the picture has been downloaded to your browser (and thus delivered by my server), you already have it. When you right-clikc-save-as, all you do is copy it from the memory of your computer to your hard drive.

If it is indeed possible to prohibit, it would stop ppl saving images on their hard drive (tho I guess they could do a screen capture, if they were keen enough!), which might stop ppl posting to newsgroups... but that's not really something I want to stop anyway - that's how I get a huge majority of my customers.

As always, thanks for thinking!

abby

[Vid Dude]

The 'don't right-click' thing is certainly possible. I've encountered it a few times, and I absolutely hate it when I do. So I don't think it's fair to subject people to something I also find so frustrating.

After all, we don't begrudge people keeping copies of the images, even the samples - they're our form of advertising. And posting the free samples to a newsgroup is actually really good for us, as Arsby's work will attest. As long as complete sets aren't made available, or are edited in any way (Abby was made aware of a thumbnail page recently that had smoothed and smudged a subset of Emma! They looked awful after that manipulation http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/sad.gif )

We aren't going to eliminate free samples entirely - they will still be available on a special free samples page - but it will be a limited number (about 12 or 20 or so at a time) and be regularly shuffled and changed. They will still be representative of our content, and still be full size, just not as ubiquitous. (big word of the week, I hope I used it correctly)

[kumaraguy]

With regards to the bandwidth issue and/or server load, is there any advantage if we download zip files instead of individual pics ? Just a sample of my thoughts http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif (in keeping with the topic of this thread ...you know.. "sample " and "pics ").. oh to heck with it I'm posting it any way

[Abby]

Hiya, K

Nope, makes no diff if you DL single pics OR zips - but it does make a diff if you download BOTH zips AND pics, of course. But generally, I think people would not do that much. Maybe a few as samples, but that's all (right?). I ran a survey a while back asking how many ppl downloaded the zips versus the single pictures, turned out it was a bout half and half.

It had crossed my mind to offer two or three pics as full size samples (to members), and then just have zips for download (ie, not single pics, as there arenow), the same was drchives.com does it.

But if half of my customers are using the single pics (downloading just the ones they want, for example), I think it'd create MORE of a load on the server to do it this way (forcing people to DL 3.5mb zips, when they might usually DL a few hundred Kb), and be a little rude.

Abby

[kumaraguy]

hi Abby,
You know why I am really here aye ? http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/wink.gif..
Just passing time till you get the update for Joy up http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Can hardly wait, the suspense is killing me .....