Valerie on board!

[valerie]

Hi !!

Guess what, I'm going to be helping out with the site, how cool is that? Plus, I've done another shoot or two and I finally (finally!) have started to see my shoots already up :]

I'm not really good at forums, so please bear with me if I break any unwritten rules, etc.
xoxo <3 Val

[joannembd]

Ooh, Abby land just gets better and better! Welcome Valerie! Glad you're around. Don't worry about the rules of forums - This is a very nice community here! And we have more shoots to look forward to?!! Wonderful! [Cool picture]:)
- Jo

[susie]

Yay! We have a new girl who is tops!

I hope you all make her feel welcome, she's going to be a very important part of the team here.

We LURVE new girls :)

s

[Grakoni]

how does abby always manage to get the best models on her team :)

[Millie]

New girls are cool. Especially when they are Valerie. Then again, we had that really annoying new girl once - remember her? Susie, I think her name was. Oh, hang on...she's still here. Damn :p

[willow]

Welcome Val :)

[BigSpud]

,,, I'm not really good at forums, so please bear with me if I break any unwritten rules, etc.
xoxo <3 ValHi Val, Welcome to the boards and the the splendiferous AW staff.

You have already broken one unwritten rule of these boards -- NEVER put yourself down! :)

Spuddie (As Luxman likes to call me)

[stoneyyy]

Whooo hooo congrates on your new job Val
and yes I would love to see more of you

[Luxman]

Don't worry about the rules of forums...
Hmm, is this a call for anarchy? :)

Lxm

[Luxman]

Oh, I forgot:

Hi Valerie,

Nice to have you here, and don't worry about the rules. :)

Lxm

[Luxman]

how does abby always manage to get the best models on her team :)
Money?

Lxm

[Penelope]

Money?

Lxm
Luxman I'm surprised at you. To think that we would do this for the money? Proposterous. It's all about the free porn.

p

[Luxman]

Luxman I'm surprised at you. To think that we would do this for the money? Proposterous. It's all about the free porn.
I didn't know that you girls live from air, water and love only.
I thought you also need some food, clothes (well, that not always :)) and other nice things.

Lxm

[Darth Dave]

Welcome Valerie <3

New shoots or two are always great. Don't worry about breaking most of the rules the main rule is if you are hot you can do whatever you want. ;)

Dave

[matchless]

Welcome to the staff, Valerie. There is one rule you should keep in mind -- that if you work in the office naked your boss will post pictures, right Susie ;)

[susie]

That is correct! And there is only one way to avoid it...work naked when Abby isn't armed with a camera!

s

[artlover]

Hi Valerie! wlecome to our little AW online community. I'm sure you'll do fine--Abby knows how to hire quality. I enjoyed your all-natural set and will enjoy getting to know you a little more.

As an icebreaker, are you a Tour de France fan, like moi? who's your favorite rider? Since I am from the USA, you can imagine who mine is. :)

'course, now Millie's muffin budget will be strained even further... ;)

[liandra]

Hey Valerie,

So they poached you from ISM did they... who can blame them, what better welcome is there for timid new comers than to have a receptionist of you're calibre. Especially when you're signing autographs. I still have mine on the fridge.;)

[Peter552]

Hi, Valerie. Nice to have you on the team. What exactly is an 'office support role'?

[jseas]

Valerie,

Welcome to the AW crew. I really liked your set, and now hope we can expect many candid shots of you terrorizing your office mates.

-- J

[arsby]

What exactly is an 'office support role'?

Remember those pictures of Atlas holding up the Earth on his shoulders.... :)

Welcome to our world, Valerie! :D

[pjay]

Hi Valerie,

Looking forward to those new sets and having you about the place (so to speak). Obviously I agree with the other posters. You can do what you want here as long as you do it naked :D

(You don't need to show us. It will be better for the old fellows here - you know who you are - if you just tell us you're naked when you post - using the brain actively keeps the elderly mentally fit :D)

[ducks really low]

[jvak]

O Canada!
Our home and native land.
True patriot love
In all our sons command.

With glowing heart we see thee rise
A true north strong and free!

From far and wide, O Canada
We stand on guard for thee!

Greetings, canuck! Glad to have you on board. I can't wait to see more of you, and have no doubt you'll make a valuable addtion to the AW team. I have to say, as far as being born and moving goes, you have good taste. If I were ever to expatriate (as the USA seems to be egging me on to do more each day) you've inhabited my two top picks. American Jr. (sometimes known as Canada) has an awful lot of appeal for someone who doesn't want too much change, but for some reason I have this idea that Australia is full of really, really cute girls. I wonder where that came from...

[artlover]

Hmm, is this a call for anarchy? :)
I think all the forum anarchists should organize and devise strict rules for anarchy... or anything may happen... ;)

BTW Valerie, if you don't keep us in line, we will wander off track like unruly children in search of a snowbank to write our names in. Just ask Millie.*

* about the wandering, not about the snowbank...

[Arrowhead]

Welcome to our little world, Valerie! :)

You may be interested to know, some of us have been saying some very nice things about you recently in the 'Hottest Orgasm' thread...........[blushes]

[valerie]

Oh my gosh, hello again everyone! I go to sleep off my first day's labors (we're talking foot-rubs for the other ladies in the office, rolling naked in paint and doing "prints" on the walls, and generally feeding peeled grapes to whoever looks in need) and come back to a full thread. Oh, I also might start doing coding. Fun fun! ...all naked, of course.

I'll admit to having had snooped on the forums once or twice in the past, and to see all these "big names" here is like meeting famous people...sort of.

Hey artlover, you mean writing in urine, don't you? This is a guess and sorry if I'm being overly crude if it's not true.;)

Now as for other shoots, well....wellllllll....see Verity and I took a camera, and then Verity left me alone in the room, and then later I came out of the room, and then she turned off the camera.:o

oh and i AM naked. Susie can verify.<3<3

[jvak]

Now now, Valerie, we may not be the world's most sophisticaed bunch, but I'm sure no one would have brought up the idea of "writing in urine." None of us are that childish (http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4120) .

Oh, um, nevermind. :)

Sounds like some job. I wouldn't mind getting paid to rub Susie's feet, feed Willow grapes, bodypaint with Verity, and cast my eyes downward in a humble manner whenever Abby entered the room. In fact, I think I'll spend the next four hours or so pretending that is my job. Excuse me :D

[joannembd]

Originally Posted by joannembd
Don't worry about the rules of forums...

Hmm, is this a call for anarchy? :)Rules? Rules? We have rules here?

OK, Valerie, I guess we have to have some rules here. So here are the rules.
1. Stay naked.
2. Post as often as possible.
3. Tell us all about yourself.
4. Do many shoots.
5. Post some more.
6. Did I mention stay naked?

[Swindapa]

Dear Valerie, Welcome welcome!
It is a madhouse here on the boards, but it does make for interesting reading, LOL
I agree with Jo's post that you should post more and stay naked. Where can I get in line for one of the foot rubs?
Also, I've seen your set and videos, you are a hot hot girl. (Love that body hair, all natural!)
Here's hoping you have a good time at work and on the boards, I'm sure you are going to be a valuable addition to the staff.
Enjoy!
Swindapa

[artlover]

rolling naked in paint and doing "prints" on the walls,
first day on the job and she has already come up with a brilliant idea!

Yep, I am referring to the time honored practice of pissing in the snow. The classics never lose their appeal... ;)

[valerie]

Me and (Queen) Millie here...I'm trying to get Mill naked, but we're taking it slowly, one sock at a time. Abby snapped the pic, of course!

[beanazoid]

Valerie, congrats on you new position with the fine bunch at AW.com. You're a hot young lady, and I would love to see more pictures of ya. :) Welcome aboard these boards!

[mrpinkeyes]

Hello Valerie

Let me be the seventeenth person to official welcoming you to the boards and wish you good luck with your new role.

I must say I have never seen so many different avatars in one page of threads, you have some very powerful friends already.

There is only three unwritten rule and that is the new girl must provide the abby team with muffins every Monday morning, get the first round in every Friday night and post embarrassing stories about your new co workers all week long. Extra points if you post embarrassing pictures of them.

Remember these rules and what could go wrong

[Dafydd]

Welcome to the cool table, Val, it's great to have you. :D

You two have such delightful feet.

[artlover]

two spunky girls in the a.m.... Artlover happy.:)... nice threads, too.

[Darth Dave]

You’re doing a great job Val I fully support your quest to get Millie naked, there needs to be more naked Millie but also more naked Val.

Dave

[daimm9]

Valerie
Welcome to the fold!
(Curses: at least 50 others have beaten me to it.)
One of Abbys secrets of success is having people who know what it's like to be in front of the camera to help behind it
Congratulations on being the next to feed your experience back to the next generation of victims, (Oops, sorry, I mean highly respected models.)
AW is a great family. I am sure that the adpotion papers will be here soon.

DaiMM

[artlover]

Hmmm... it looks from here like Valerie is grabbing Millie's... uh... Millie's... ooowoo Artlover feel faint... <thunk>

[valerie]

Ah yes we slap and pinch a bit around the office in a very cutesie way. Well ok, just Mill and I do.

You know what, I'm not really from Canada. I have spent time there, so I let it go when it came up on the site, but I've spent much more time in the US. Most of that perched in trees and picking wild edible plants etc. (I wish, I was raised in the Suburban Jailhouse.)

As for the Tour De France thing...that shirt cost me $3 many many years ago at a French language camp. 6th grade I think. Still fits beautifully, though it is wearing a little through under the arms. Ooooh! I spent a few months living in Japan after studying the language for a few years in college, and now, 2 or 3 years later, I can understand bits of it (I force myself into the immersion method and so can understand meanings without picking out individual words that well) but am starting to have trouble replying. Here's the story: sometimes on the train I'll hear school girls talking in Japanese (my gosh can they speak quickly!!) and if I manage to catch one alone (I'll know when she uses her phone that she's Nihon-jin), I'll start up a shaky conversation. Just last night there were 3 of them, and 2 got off the stop before me, so I moved in the for the kill. I leaned over the seat to accost, um, greet the lass. I don't know if my pronounciation was that shitty or she was just shocked that someone around could understand them (yeah right, they weren't even talking about boys, just about their latest shopping excursions and showing each other what they had bought), but she was really shy all of a sudden. I tried asking where she was from. such and such a place, next to Toyko. Ok...pause. I offered that I had studied in Nagoya. She was silent. Are you studying here? College? (attempts at flattery, she looked about 14). Oh, high school. Host family stay? yes. pause. Are they good people? pause. yes. awkward silence. (Still a few mintues before my stop...) and on and on. Finally I said good luck and she looked mightily relieved as I left for the door.

Normally they're really cheerful to have someone asking after them, you know? I hope she doesn't feel all insecure about everyone snooping in on their conversations for the rest of her stay.

[jvak]

I see. Sorry about all the bad Canada jokes then (at least I didn't start talking about "Strange Brew"). However, it's very nice to know that the 'burbs can still occasionally produce something other than clonebots. Where did you live in Canada?

Sadly, my imagination wasn't being helpful to me last night, so pretending to do your job wasn't very fun. Willow kept yelling at me for buying seeded grapes, Verity didn't like the color scheme I chose, and while trying not to look at Abby I accidently knocked Vid Dude over, so he proceded to kick my ass Aussie style. Thankfully, I did at least learn one bit of interesting trivia, since Susie fell asleep while I was rubbing her feet. Man, can she snore!

[susie]

Shh! Don't tell everyone! I thought it was our little secret?!

s

[jvak]

Oh, right. um.... Sorry about that, er, typo in the last post (yes, that should do it.)

What I meant to say was that Millie snores like crazy. Sound does eminate from Susie while she slumbers, but it's more akin to an angelic choir than snoring. Honest!

[valerie]

Ah Jvak it was nice to have the Canadian lyrics anyway. I was in the Toronto area for a while. I was quite young at the time. I remember the pretty train rides through the country, but they went on for like 5 hours each way or something and it was more than my young attention span could handle.

Mmmm i'm so hungry for avocados right now...are they anyone else's favorite foods? I live on avocados and brown rice I think. (I ahve a number of food allergies that can make many "normal" meals impossible for me.)

[artlover]

Mmmm i'm so hungry for avocados right now...are they anyone else's favorite foods? I live on avocados and brown rice I think.
In your honor, Val, I shall buy an avocado next time I go to the store. How about peaches, do you like/can you eat those? Your unique diet seems not to have harmed you. ;) You looked very spunky in your office attire.

[artlover]

Has Team Abby thought of installing an office webcam, so we can see the lovely workers? You could angle so as to keep prospective models out of view. Of course, on body-Print Day traffic would spike. :D<3 Also the Twister Tournament.:D and the Friday Muffin-Eating Contest. :D

Just wondering: Do delivery guys invent excuses, such as fake packages, to hang around the office and see the wonders of Australia? And do you ladies like those UPS guys in the brown shorts?

[calliope]

Hmmm... it looks from here like Valerie is grabbing Millie's... uh... Millie's... ooowoo Artlover feel faint... <thunk>

Noooo...,she's trying to get Millie to say "Gottle a geer".:D

Welcome Val,I share your love for avocados,one of the wonder foods,along with garlic.

[Philos]

avocados...with garlic.
Nouvelle cuisine?

[Jorinel]

avocados...with garlic.
avocados...with honey.

Jorinel

[valerie]

avocados and honey! I'll have to try that one, thanks Jorinel! Verity and I were discussing this wonderfruit last night, and we both agreed that avos and soy sauce is devine.

Artlover, as for the delivery guys, i don't mind the muscle, you know? Those shorty shorts, well, they're a priviledge, not a right of course (like tight jeans), but when worn appropriately it's not so bad. ;)
and yummmmm, peaches...Penny was eating dried peaches the other day and I got to have one, delish!

Hey did you know coffee and garlic are supposed to (so i've read) go well together? I'm waaaay into cooking, by the way, anyone else?

[JerryOR]

valerie -

Coffee and garlic only works if the coffee is not roasted properly. The garlic will mellow the effects of burnt coffee. At least that is my experience.

Enough about coffee....that's work to me.....I would watch my muffins if I were you... Damn now I am hungry.

Jerry

[jvak]

I love to cook, but my repetoire isn't very big. I became a vegetarian about a year ago and lost most of my standards. Lately, I've been trying to cook something new at least once a week, but between work and grad school I don't always feel up to planning, shopping, and preparing something creative.

I have to say it's a lot of fun though, and it's really changed the way I think about food. If anyone out there really likes eating/cooking I would suggest trying cooking without meat every now and then (not for conversion, just for a challenge). In most dishes, especially in American food, meat dominates the meal. If you simply try to replace it you won't enjoy your dinner very much, but it will enourage you to try many new things.

[Jorinel]

avocados and honey! I'll have to try that one, thanks Jorinel! Verity and I were discussing this wonderfruit last night, and we both agreed that avos and soy sauce is devine.
Or you can try avocado chopped up with the flesh of an orange and vinaigrette - very tasty.

Jorinel

[valerie]

ooooooh so hungry..i had to go out and buy some chocolate-covered coffee beans, organic trail mix, macadamias, and an apple. That should last an hour.

In Paris we used to eat avos with viniagrette with raw shallots all the time. Or with soy sauce, yum! I'll try the orange, and the honey, and see who can feed it to me without spilling!

Good on ya Jvak for cutting back on meat!! I know some people really crave it (and it is replete with vit'mins) but I don't digest it very easily. In the Valerie Household we eat meat rarely in house, as I only really cook chicken and 'roo (organic free range, yes, i'm one of those). Otherwise we have something with beans, lentils, tofu etc. I've found that a good homemade stock (though often I make it with chicken) and/or lots of herbage (thyme, rosemary, oregano, sage, etc) will add complexity to any dish.

The more satisfaction from each bite, the less you need to eat overall, right? (Although I get faint if I don't eat about 8 times a day, so I'm a big hypocrite). Jvak do you have any culinary wisdom to impart?

[jvak]

Sorry, but I don't have anything worth being called wisdom. I prefer to keep it simple most of the time. I used to try and be really elaborate when I cooked, but now I focus on just a few simple tastes that I love. A good olive oil, garlic, and black beans are about the only things I can't live without.

Like my brother asked me last night, "What are you making for dinner?"
"Rice and beans." I said.
"Is that all?" He wondered.
"What the hell else could you want?"

If you find yourself eating 8 times a day, I would highly recomend Clif bars (if you can get them in Australia). They're completely organic, taste amazing, and there are many different varities to choose from (carrot cake and lemon poppyseed are my favorites). Whenever I go hiking I pretty much live off of them.

[artlover]

Lately I have been eating my peaches with a little salt.

[valerie]

artlover - I have been using so much salt lately too! I'll have to start putting it on fruit now, just to try. I'm training for the half-marathon (21.1k or 13.? miles)...it's on the 9th of October. You would not believe how much salt, calories, and beer I consume. Are you doing a lot of exercise too that you crave salt?

Jvak you and I seem to have the same diet! woo hoo! (Except you can probably also eat the foods i'm allergic to.) Clif bars rock but I haven't looked for them here yet. I'm on a strict diet of chocolate-coated coffee beans this morning.

[jvak]

Call it what you will, but running 21k shouldn't be called "half" of anything. While our diets may be the same, it sounds like you kick my butt when it comes to exercise. Between lazyness and left-over injuries I doubt I could run more than a mile or two without keeling over and gasping like a fish. I do like to hike that far, but that takes most of a day! Anyway, best of luck to you.

What type of Clif bars do you prefer? I'm so conventional that once I find something I like I keep getting it until I'm sick of it, and so I think the only other one I've tried was oatmeal rasin, or something close to that.

And, on a completely unrelated manner, may I say that your husband is a very lucky man. Someday I hope I'm lucky enough to fall in love with a woman who quotes Homer Simpson! :p

[stoneyyy]

Salt on fruit? now thats going too far.

I stopped using salt on food many years ago (other then chips). Now when i eat something that has been salted i really taste the salt and ewww.

[valerie]

You're lucky you can taste stuff without salt! I am thirsty all day and drink drink drink (then pee once every 30 minutes) still thirsty

but if I salt my food, use lots of soy sauce, etc the problem is solved! (Also, I can't eat potatoes and always make my own soups, so my "normal" salt intake is limited.) It's a shame, but when I exercise this much, I can't taste much without salt because I need to replace so much of it.

[Luxman]

...then pee once every 30 minutes...
Abby where's the camera??

Lxm

[stoneyyy]

I thought salt makes you want to drink that's why they put salted peanuts on the bar so people drink more

[matchless]

Like my brother asked me last night, "What are you making for dinner?"
"Rice and beans." I said.
"Is that all?" He wondered.
"What the hell else could you want?"
Well ... I like grating a bit of cheddar cheese over my rice and beans. But maybe that's just because I'm from Wisconsin :)

(Valerie and most of the other Yanks are probably aware of this native nickname, but for those of you going :confused: and unawares: folks from this particular state in the States are known as "Cheeseheads" because Wisconsin used to be the biggest producer of dairy products. California has since taken over in terms of quantity, but that is mostly due to factory farming practices, which I loath. And if you ever happen to drive past a factory farm with thousands upon thousands of livestock living and shitting and ... well, 'nuf said 'bout that!)

[SpiffyZippy]

does anyone ever work topless or bottomless??

how informal is the atmosphere?? or is it to damn professional???

[matchless]

does anyone ever work topless or bottomless??

how informal is the atmosphere?? or is it to damn professional???
How could you have missed this thread (http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=658)?

[arsby]

how informal is the atmosphere?? or is it to damn professional???
"Informal" and "Professional" are not mutually exclusive. A lot of professional work gets done in an informal atmosphere. That's a good thing!

Now, "topless" and "professional" might work in a gentlemen's club...

[SpiffyZippy]

the pics of susie in thread dont work, so sad

generally it seems like a business (which is odd cause they dont do it for the money)

maybe its illegal for employees to walk around office in the nude (which i can understand, but why not get naked during photo and video shoots), maybe its harder to work a camera when not wearing any clothes, I tried it and i had trouble with the flash

[artlover]

How could you have missed this thread (showthread.php?t=658)?
Too bad the pics are no longer there. Waaaaah...

[Peter552]

Don't remember where I got this pic originally, but is does seem to illustrate both the dress code and degree of professionalism at aw.com. ;)

[matchless]

maybe its illegal for employees to walk around office in the nude
The only job where I could imagine there being any regulations about nudity would be jobs involving food preparation, and in that case, I would support such regulations.

Anyone who has been spattered by hot oil would surely agree :eek: OSHA and the FDA serve a valuable purpose but we don't need them to teach us common sense.

[sweatyfox]

Whoah, that pic is a nice shock to the system at this late hour. Verity mmmmmm, Jamie mmmmmmmm........hey wait a minute, I came here to welcome Valerie on board, a recent favourite of mine,so what a bonus she'll be sticking around and chatting. How does Abby get such great staff....a question worth asking again. Is she blessed or something?

SF

[valerie]

It's definitely pretty informal here! I used to streak almost compulsively in college, so I occassionally flash Millie or Penny one breast or something for kicks, for example. Ok, so only twice. So far. But it was hilarious! I did it when Penny and Abby were talking, but Abby was looking down, so she didn't see why Pen lit up all of a sudden...it was great!

We do have a massuese come through once a fortnight, and she's HOT and she'll rub down ANY part of us we want...

[valerie]

Whoah, that pic is a nice shock to the system at this late hour. Verity mmmmmm, Jamie mmmmmmmm........hey wait a minute, I came here to welcome Valerie on board, a recent favourite of mine,so what a bonus she'll be sticking around and chatting. How does Abby get such great staff....a question worth asking again. Is she blessed or something? Wow that IS hot! And :o thank you sweatfyfox!<3 Abby won me over with wit and charm. She is definitely blessed, partly because she's quite generous. (Just look at all these hot babes she's willing to share!)

[Vid Dude]

We do have a massuese come through once a fortnight, and she's HOT and she'll rub down ANY part of us we want...
Um. Well, not any part. Unfortunately.

[valerie]

Um. Well, not any part. Unfortunately. And have you asked? (This might be looking into for me for next week...)

[Vid Dude]

And have you asked? (This might be looking into for me for next week...)
I dare not.

[Vid Dude]

I've moved all your chat about organic foods to this new thread here.

[Peter552]

Valerie,

I love your new avatar! Nothing against Tour de France, but I prefer a bit of flesh any day!

Peter

[valerie]

Thanks Peter! :o I just used one of my pictures from the shoot :]

[liandra]

Hey,

Just coming in a little late but I love avacardos on toast with cayene pepper. Yum. Good luck in the 1/2 marathon, you MUST post pictures of you all hot and sweating and toned in training or post marathon...mmmm....

I saw your post in Abrielle's thread, it's going to be so cool having her on the discourses so thanks for setting up the username for her. I'm still hoping against all evidence that Abby will get us (Paula, Abrielle, ChloeB, you and I) to do a GGGGG shoot together, whatever the tier.

Verity told me you've flashed her as well now, god I wish I worked in that office, not many flashers in my classes at uni. I also heard you have a passion for recycling, it seems you bring so many great things to the AWHQ, look forward to hearing about more of them.

[Darth Dave]

I'm still hoping against all evidence that Abby will get us (Paula, Abrielle, ChloeB, you and I) to do a GGGGG shoot together, whatever the tier.Don’t give up try to catch Abby or Penny in a great mood, this shoot will make the world a better place. :D

Dave

[valerie]

Hi! I did a T3 shoot yesterday with Jade T (http://www.abbywinters.com/main.php?page=profile&model=593). Way hot...Jade had a great time if you know what I mean. I am quite sore and tired myself now. Not sure when it will be up but i do hope you all enjoy it as much as we did!

[Arrowhead]

"Sore and tired"..........? The mind boggles!

[blissed]

Hi Val, I'd love to talk about this with you, and this seems like quite a nice place.
So please share your thoughts. I found what you had to say so far (http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=74453#post74453) really interesting.

I just found another Yonic art site, with some great images.
http://www.vaginarts.com/Eindex.html
and a link page to other sites like it.
http://www.vaginapagina.com/links.php#Yonic%20Art

2732

2733

[Randomthoughts]

Valerie! Can you give us some insight as to how your shoot went with Jade? "If you know what I mean" - cannot be answered by a guy for some reason..(gawd I am jealous)
Blissed - thanks for the photos. Dropped a couple of hits of acid and the pictures straightened out.

RT...

[casgrain]

Hey RT, am I missing something here? Did you look at the date Valerie mentioned this. Maybe you should look
here (http://www.abbywinters.com/main.php?page=profile&model=1106), then you'll see how it went.:)

[Randomthoughts]

Oh. I remember that one, I thought it was a Redux G/G we were in for!
Thanks Casgrain!

RT...

[lemark]

I believe in 1992 water bourn pathogens entered the millwaukee water treatment plant;
over 3 to 400,000 were affected and about 100 died from that microbly attack;
i would be insteraded in knowing how you and family and friends held up under those extreme conditions;
i believe the little bugger was crytosporidiosis;
matchless is in that area to;
what was there first-line defence against it ;

[matchless]

I believe in 1992 water bourn pathogens entered the millwaukee water treatment plant;
over 3 to 400,000 were affected and about 100 died from that microbly attack;
i would be insteraded in knowing how you and family and friends held up under those extreme conditions;
i believe the little bugger was crytosporidiosis;
matchless is in that area to;
what was there first-line defence against it ;
I won't take up too much of Valerie's spunky thread with this discussion ... don't know if she was here at that time. I do remember that incident quite well. One more thing to add to the list of infamous Milwaukee things (it followed the Jeffery Dahmer trial by a few years.) The first line of defense was quite simply don't drink the water. I didn't get effected by it and I drank the water.

For a humourous take on cryptosporidium, here's an article from The Onion (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38753).

p.s. - thanks to whoever moved this discussion ... not very spunky, was it? ;)

[valerie]

Hey actually my brother came down with it. NOT cool! He was 12 at the time, yeah 1992. I remember him being sick for about two weeks, really bad. Good memory, lemark! Thank goodness the rest of us didn't catch it ay my place. We were on well water, god bless it, and weren't drinking the filth from the lake.

It's so bad what they do to Lake Michigan. I remember an article in the paper saying "whoops, we messed up our numbers. It wasn't 2 million gallons of raw sewage dumped in last year, it was 4 million! our bad." holy fuck, why are we dumping raw sewage into this beautiful source of freshwater?? Just make more Milorganite!

siiiigh. environmental stuff always makes me sad. let's think happy thoughts! i'm glad you weren't affected, matchless!

[Leprechaun]

Milorganite? So I looked it up. Here's a link to what I found: http://www.retrocom.com/retromilw/milorg.htm. Quite interesting, take a look.

- L

[matchless]

Yes, we are famous for Soooooo many things ... :rolleyes:

[dacooper]

Hi, Val. I've already said some of this on another thread - but, just having looked at your IM... you are one hot chick ! I'll never look at a zucchini the same way again....;) Another thing - being honest, I preferred shaved girls previously, but you have opened up a whole new chapter in my 'babe book'.. don't change a thing - you are cuteness personified.... Incidentally - are you left-handed ? My evidence says you probably are....

[opiejuan]

Hi! I did a T3 shoot yesterday with Jade T (http://www.abbywinters.com/main.php?page=profile&model=593). Way hot...Jade had a great time if you know what I mean. I am quite sore and tired myself now. Not sure when it will be up but i do hope you all enjoy it as much as we did!

That was quite a tasty set of photos and videos. Excellent stuff. :D

[valerie]

Hey thanks opiejuan! ooooo and you made your first post on my thread! <3 Was there anything in particular that you really liked (or, be honest, wish would have been different) ?

And dacooper, I replied to the other one as well, but THANK YOU! :o heh that zuke and I got along famously, I was almost sad to part with it. Almost. :) It was great because I had a much better selection of sizes and shapes than one normally does at a toy store. Nature is the best!

[opiejuan]

Hey thanks opiejuan! ooooo and you made your first post on my thread! <3 Was there anything in particular that you really liked (or, be honest, wish would have been different) ?

I don't know if I'd change a thing really. It's the naturalness of it all that's so alluring and charming really. Both of you are just sweet, young and real. There's nothing more exciting than seeing two girls like yourself's getting it on :D

Just do more videos, different settings, different girls and even better why not a threesome?

<3

[lemark]

Dear Valerie
I,am in a very buoyant, with fragments of good moves;
Working on a synthic performance;
For when the wind trumpets;
to go with -in the ears;
I,am a bedouin prince;
Looking into the pool of tranquility;
Well back , from the snapping hand bags;
Drinking a cartion of bad manners;
And cooking brown rice and kerosene;
With a slice of blue vain cheese;
On a slice of bituminous shale;
You and your husband have a good Easter;

[artlover]

heh that zuke and I got along famously, I was almost sad to part with it. Almost.
So, Val, what kind of lettuce goes best with your toys after you are done? Ya like croutons? :D

Croutons--fun to say, fun to eat. This message brought to you by the World Crouton Council (TM) in conjunction with AZFA--The Australian Zucchini Fanciers Association. Zucchini--Nature's Pleasure-Maker! (TM)

[lemark]

If you enjoy reading a very good book;
Brenda maddox
Biography of Rosalind Franklin;
She discovered, Deoxyribonucleic, d,n,a;
Through X-ray crystallogrophy;

[lemark]

The reason I got angry at doctor Spice;
He belongs to the intellegent community,
His Interlect would be in between 170 -200 or above;
He is a man of genius at scholostic abstractions; maths;
His thoughts processes would out weight a 100 of us;
His genius is envited to the U S A and to other NATO aliences;
He is a man who is able to Mathically construct engines of scientific warefare;
What if his genius was put to saving the third would;
Around the time he was on you would experenced subtle strangesness in your main frame;
But then I could be wrong;

[valerie]

I don't know if I'd change a thing really. It's the naturalness of it all that's so alluring and charming really. Both of you are just sweet, young and real. There's nothing more exciting than seeing two girls like yourself's getting it on :D

Just do more videos, different settings, different girls and even better why not a threesome?

<3

Heh a threesome...sounds pretty grand, really. I don't even want to consider work til my little fuzzy lovepatch has grown out again though, so it's good to come up with the ideas now so when I try to run them by Susie and Abby they'll have a good idea what we all mean.

Lemark, thank you for your beautiful poetry. Not all the moderaters appreciate their poetic nature, but I certainly do!

Arty, let's go into business together. You can write the jingles and the scripts, and I'll do the hands-on demos. Just think, with your brains and my <cough cough> we'll be taking over the world shortly. Think of the possibilities, starting with the salad theme of course: Salad Dressing (low in fat), The Carrot Campaign...

[Techman]

little fuzzy lovepatch


Arty, let's go into business together. You can write the jingles and the scripts, and I'll do the hands-on demos. Just think, with your brains and my <cough cough>

lol!:D

[Randomthoughts]

The reason I got angry at doctor Spice;
He belongs to the intellegent community,
His Interlect would be in between 170 -200 or above;
He is a man of genius at scholostic abstractions; maths;
His thoughts processes would out weight a 100 of us;
His genius is envited to the U S A and to other NATO aliences;
He is a man who is able to Mathically construct engines of scientific warefare;
What if his genius was put to saving the third would;
Around the time he was on you would experenced subtle strangesness in your main frame;
But then I could be wrong;

Lemark, Did your crack-pipe instruct you to write that?

RT...

[artlover]

Arty, let's go into business together. You can write the jingles and the scripts, and I'll do the hands-on demos. Just think, with your brains and my <cough cough> we'll be taking over the world shortly.

I blush with anticipation. I am packing my bags now. Please leave a trail of croutons from the Melbourne airport to the new AWHQ.

I think our first project should be a device that removes unwanted salad toppings placed by overzealous chefs. Call it the Salad Undresser. And after that...

Tired of Blokes? Come unencumbered with Cucumbers!

[Leprechaun]

So, you guys wanna take over the world, eh? You must be bored. Well, it might be easier than you think. There's already growing grass-roots support for Val here up over. For the last several weeks (according to a movement spokeswoman, it started on Feb 7) there's been an outburst of enthusiasm with bumper stickers like "Zucchini! Make love, not salads." And the one my g/f put on her car last week, "Tired of his weenie? Try a zucchini!" The organization's literature is popping up all over, here's an example from the April 3rd issue of New Yorker magazine:
2953

Go for it, guys, the time is ripe to squash the opposition.

- L

[artlover]

the time is ripe to squash the opposition.
So to speak. :)

We should soon have an agreement with the World Pickle Alliance--should be a really sweet dill. :D

Spice your jerkin' with a gherkin!

[valerie]

hahahahahahahahaha !!!
i read all this out to hubby, who just rolled his eyes. Paula and Chloe might want to get in on this too, what with the banana organisation:

Please your fanny with a bananny!

[Randomthoughts]

So, you guys wanna take over the world, eh? You must be bored. Well, it might be easier than you think. There's already growing grass-roots support for Val here up over. For the last several weeks (according to a movement spokeswoman, it started on Feb 7) there's been an outburst of enthusiasm with bumper stickers like "Zucchini! Make love, not salads." And the one my g/f put on her car last week, "Tired of his weenie? Try a zucchini!" The organization's literature is popping up all over, here's an example from the April 3rd issue of New Yorker magazine:
2953

Go for it, guys, the time is ripe to squash the opposition.

- L
Leprechaun ....Had to look at that comic twice. Noticed the guy lying down's boots were facing upwards and that was actually a shotgun barrel. I thought it was a Brokeback Mountain joke....
Maybe you could design a t-shirt for Val on the new campaign? Now that would be funny!

RT...

[Leprechaun]

Gosh, RT, that's a tough one. What do you think, Val? Of your many endearing qualities, there's one in particular that would introduce some wrinkles into design considerations. The words would have to be legible while the shirt was all bunched up under your chin. Maybe a tattoo would be a more reliable way of getting the message out. But you guys would have to think up the slogans, I've never been any good at that. 'Bout the best I can do is steal lines from bumper stickers. I once contemplated a line of women's T-shirts done in braille with little rubber bumps but all I could come up with was "If you can read this, you're too damn close!"

This reminds me of the funniest T-shirt I've ever seen for a woman. It was worn by a gal with a pair of breasts that could feed an army and it said "I wish these were brains." Of course this would'nt make much sense on Val as she's well endowed with both.

- L

[Randomthoughts]

Val, do you have a template in which Leprechan can model his new artwork with? I could see the need to understand the image and text being somewhat legible given your enduring qualities as he puts it ever so eloquently.
Well, he can't go get the measurements, I am sure he could vector it through a photo....(hint...hint....)

RT...

[valerie]

Oh my. With a design team growing like this, we need to define roles a bit better. Arty, you're Slogan Master. Lep, you're Medium/Template Control, Lemark can be my Personal Muse and a voice in my head is saying "Court Musician" but that's the wrong setting. Something close at hand like that though. And RT, you're the Go-Between, wheedling budgets and photos and resouces out of Head Office (yours truly) for deployment.

Yes. This is all falling into place. Speak up now if you find your title inappropriate (or if anyone else wants to get on the payroll here).

And RT you've done it again, I'll see about a photo on Monday (for business purposes, of course!). Er, for the sake of the art we're creating, any further details on the nature of the canvas you want me to present would be an aide to me...

[stoneyyy]

I will just be your fan

[Randomthoughts]

Well, Val....you are the primary marketing focus. I will task on a project basis and buy-in from the stakeholders- assumptions being it is ok with abby and that the aforementioned members have accepted their contracts as offered. Anyone else is quite welcome to join in.
Artlover - Slogan that meets target audience - What is the selling theme/target market?
Leprechaun - Please provide Val with the appropriate photo specs to maximize the attraction to the medium and selling features - IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE A "BEFORE A T-SHIRT ON" AND "AFTER A T-SHIRT IS APPLIED" in order to analyse the census data for the effectiveness.
Lemark - a soothing prose for the flocking buyers in Val's store would be nice. I know you could keep the masses at bay during the product launch wih the supply & demand issues that will be prevelant.
Anyone else? - What needs to happen other than this. Speak-up, everyone!

RT...

[lemark]

Dear leprechaun
What about a left-handed, braille T-shirt

[Randomthoughts]

Please consider Safety First. use both hands at all times.

RT...

[lemark]

Dear randomthoughts,
Dear leprechaun,
Dear valerie
There was a bedouin prince;
And a great American president;
Both from great nations of , Arts, Learning, emotional understanding;
Both walking down the foot path, of life,in Tasmina;
There language was of banality;
When they gazed upon a dog licking its balls and arse;
When one of the men said;
I would love to be able to do that;
The other great man said;
In my humble opion;
I would pat the dog first;
Before making your next move;

WE three come from nations all;
And you will find that, our hamoglobin molecule,
Lay beneath the earth in some forign land;

[lemark]

On tuesday , along with our New Zealand brothers;
We celebrate our war dead;
Least WE FORGET;
Those in the Vetenam war;for in themselves they believed in our feture,

[Techman]

Oh my. With a design team growing like this, we need to define roles a bit better. Arty, you're Slogan Master. Lep, you're Medium/Template Control, Lemark can be my Personal Muse and a voice in my head is saying "Court Musician" but that's the wrong setting. Something close at hand like that though. And RT, you're the Go-Between, wheedling budgets and photos and resouces out of Head Office (yours truly) for deployment.

Yes. This is all falling into place. Speak up now if you find your title inappropriate (or if anyone else wants to get on the payroll here).

And RT you've done it again, I'll see about a photo on Monday (for business purposes, of course!). Er, for the sake of the art we're creating, any further details on the nature of the canvas you want me to present would be an aide to me...

Oh, me, me, me! I can fetch coffee and Chupa Chups!

[Back everone! The jobs mine!]

[Wait a second...that's not artsy...]

[lemark]

Dear Techman,
there is a question first?
Would you prefure to calibrate a Submeraine;
Or swim with whale sharks ,dolphines,Manta rays ;
Dose it really matter ; just so long our understandings are passed on to those who have less ;

[Leprechaun]

What happened? I step out with a couple o' pals to TP the mayor's house (wish I'd had Jemma's number to ask her along, seems like just her cup o' tea) and when I get back all Hell's broken loose. The mind, it boggles! Okay lemme see if I can figure out what's going on here...

Stoneyyy! Thank ghod you're here, man. Come down outta them bleachers. I don't know what's going on here but It looks like we're gonna need your grounding commentary up close. I thought Val and Artlover were gonna rule the world (always a losing proposition) and now RT's talking about buy-ins and contracts and all sorts of filthy lucre things.

RT, I'll get right on it. Start the anal-izing of the censor daddys for effeteness (did I say that or was it lemark?) and I'll be in the galleries researching the photo specs for the BEFORE A T-SHIRT ON phase. This might take a long time, if you need me I'll be here (http://www.abbywinters.com/main.php?page=profile&model=774).

lemark, a left-handed, braille T-shirt, eh? Something vaguely sinister about that makes it sound attractive. I dunno though, I thought to do any left-handed stuff you had to be right-brained. I haven't been in my right mind since, like, before jesus played tambourine in the Salvation Army Band. I'll see what I can do, tho.

Techman! All right! A snsensible man on board. (If anyone doesn't already know why he's sensible just look at the job he claimed. Wish I'd thought of that.)

Valerie, your delegations are uncanny. Artlover, the man who should us that AW - are the first letters in AWsome, as Slogan Master; RT, the only guy on the planet who can effectively wheedle without pissing people off; lemark, ... hmmm here's an original wrapped in a uniquity if there ever was one... I know! I've got Carrolan's harp at the end of a rainbow somewhere. Lemark, are you up for that? You'd be The Official Bard. And me as the Mediocre Temple Troll is the perfect -- oh, what's the use? Val, help! I'm in so far over my head - I don't know a Medium/Template from a well-done steak. Temple Monkey I could handle or Court Jester, maybe. But these folks is talkin' 'bout selling to target markets and celibate submarines and having designs on you and getting all organized and I don't even know what a Chupa Chup tastes like and ... EEEEEEEEEEEEEK! STONEYYY! SAY SOMETHING!

[Techman]

Dear Techman,
there is a question first?
Would you prefure to calibrate a Submeraine;
Or swim with whale sharks ,dolphines,Manta rays ;
Dose it really matter ; just so long our understandings are passed on to those who have less ;

lemark,

This one is for you and you alone...

Submarines, tanks, planes...
Whale sharks, dolphins and manta rays...
They all calibrate me by the window of life...
Through observance...
I reflect...
Then, I teach.

[lemark]

Dear techman;
The pigment layering of your writings;
Had the interections of rational body and soul;
A WONDERFUL interlect;to have;
Your spinal cord must be straight;

[stoneyyy]

LoL Lepy, "something"

Looks like i have missing this secret take over of the world, I have been distracted in the Jemma thread where life is sweet and wonderfull all the time
Looks like i need to do some reading here

[artlover]

Holy moly! It's the AW Poetry Slam!

Artlover - Slogan that meets target audience - What is the selling theme/target market?

My scientifickle market research says that the target audience is men and women who appreciate women with brains, beauty, damn nice breasts and a lovely full bush. They used this formula:

IQ(B+DNB+LFB)=Valerie

And came up with this slogan:

There she was, just a-walkin' down the street,
singin' doo wah diddy diddy dum diddy doo...

ehm, I think the market research team has become over-smitten with Val's charms. I'll get back to you on the slogan thing, folks...

[valerie]

Oh, me, me, me! I can fetch coffee and Chupa Chups!

[Back everone! The jobs mine!]

[Wait a second...that's not artsy...]

Hired! Cappuccino, one sugar, thrice weekly, and cherry-flavoured lollies only, please! (unless they come out with a chocolate one)

[Randomthoughts]

I'll see about a photo on Monday (for business purposes, of course!). Er, for the sake of the art we're creating, any further details on the nature of the canvas you want me to present would be an aide to me... Val, is it Monday in Oz? Lep is the critical schedule constraint of the concept model phase of our project. Others will be pushed out on our timeline if you do not meet your deliverable...
Artlover/Stoneyyy...are the wheels hitting the asphalt on your slogan?
:D

RT...

[Vid Dude]

Cherry chupa-chups rock!

[lemark]

Summarizings = opportunites;
Simple=views;= Big picture;
Long term;
Broad scale;
external stakesholders;
internal stakeholders;
future setbacks;
entry level of futurs employes;
Domino effect through = teething;
This can a be ducessed over a slab of bad manners in organizations, development room;

[greycat]

Artlover said::: My scientifickle market research says that the target audience is men and women who appreciate women with brains, beauty, damn nice breasts and a lovely full bush. They used this formula:

IQ(B+DNB+LFB)=Valerie

And came up with this slogan:

There she was, just a-walkin' down the street,
singin' doo wah diddy diddy dum diddy doo...



AL: keep this!! genius absolute!! (other than a minor copyright thing).
right brain/left brain equally represented!! (or, is it left/right? dont recall which side would be handling equations vs. singing).
(p.s. how do you get that marvelous little quote box around things?)

[Techman]

Hired! Cappuccino, one sugar, thrice weekly, and cherry-flavoured lollies only, please! (unless they come out with a chocolate one)
Great! Now, regarding your order...do you take steamed milk, sprinkled ground chocolate, cinnamon and nutmeg in your Cappuccino.:confused:

Or just black with sugar? :cool:

[alleyes1]

(p.s. how do you get that marvelous little quote box around things?)

Hi greycat,
When you want to quote someone else you hit the reply button as usual then you surround the part you want to quote with "quote tags".

All you do is type in:
content

For the content, i usually cut and paste from the other persons message into my reply between the tags.

so to quote something i said, you'd type in
content


Alleyes. (testing the noparse tag):)

[valerie]

Great! Now, regarding your order...do you take steamed milk, sprinkled ground chocolate, cinnamon and nutmeg in your Cappuccino.:confused:

Or just black with sugar? :cool:

This was always one of the very few points of contention between my parents. My mother likes her coffee "as coffee should be": black, no sugar. My father, on the other hand, says "I just like to civilize it" and adds cream and sugar.

I go for the cappuccino, so the milk is a given, but if it's good enough of a brew, no sugar is necessary! And of COURSE the chocolate sprinkes and cinnamon sounds good ooooh! and nutmeg i'm so glad you asked! <3


Oh, Stoneyyy, you've been promoted from 'fan' to 'test market' ya lucky bastard. So team, what's the first slogan going to be? I'm waiting for the specs for these images! ;) Big surprise comes when ya'll get your act together on this.

[artlover]

How about... Valerie: The Relentless Pursuit of Ecstasy (stolen from some hot-shit car company)

[Diablo]

Mind if I help out? Here's my contribution for the promotion of vegies as pleasure aids...

How about... Valerie: The Relentless Pursuit of Ecstasy (stolen from some hot-shit car company) Think Orgasmic (shamelessly stolen from a fruit-inspired computer company) Veg' for your Vag' Millions grown, thousands moan... Designs from infinity, just choose a zucchini!

[Randomthoughts]

Good ones Diablo!
Maybe a couple of these well positioned on the t-shirt
2975 2975

With the tagline "THE TASTIEST CHERRY TO SUCK ON!!!"

[Techman]

This was always one of the very few points of contention between my parents. My mother likes her coffee "as coffee should be": black, no sugar. My father, on the other hand, says "I just like to civilize it" and adds cream and sugar.

I go for the cappuccino, so the milk is a given, but if it's good enough of a brew, no sugar is necessary! And of COURSE the chocolate sprinkes and cinnamon sounds good ooooh! and nutmeg i'm so glad you asked! <3

Whew....ok, finally! After a whole day shopping and doing errands. I finally found the perfect Cappuccino maker...what do ya think? It's the Elta 9000!

I hope you appreciate the trouble I went through to get this thing. I found it in a specialty shop way on other side of town.....annnyyyy ways...I also got a big bag of Chupa-Chups . I'll fill the big jar if it's still around.

Now, I'm off to figure out how this thing works...

[Hey, Willow! Where can I plug this thing in?! Willow?!]

2979

[greycat]

at first incautious glance, I thought,"AW new world HQ and Tower, wow!" (then noticed the cappucino cups and steam spout - the only architects who might do that are in Vegas) ( or maybe Kuala Lumpur-see Petronas Tower)

hhhmmmm, tried that quote thing and instead duplicated this message then deleted it (see just above), I think there needs to be a sandbox for trying out these bells and whistles before going live, and will probably learn shortly where it is (i.e. be told where to go).

[Techman]

hhhmmmm, tried that quote thing and instead duplicated this message then deleted it (see just above), I think there needs to be a sandbox for trying out these bells and whistles before going live, and will probably learn shortly where it is (i.e. be told where to go).

Down the hall, take a left...:)

http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=2

[valerie]

Ok, here's what I have so far. This is before the shirt is applied:

2987

And this is after it's applied.

2988

Is that what we're going for? We could take over the world with this stuff, eh?
Hey you can sorta tell I've been going to the gym too, yesssssss!

[matchless]

Not that I mind the slogan t-shirt (very lol) but frankly I would prefer more before!

I said ... more before! :D C'mon kids, join in the chant!

More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! ...

[Diablo]

Not that I mind the slogan t-shirt (very lol) but frankly I would prefer more before!

I said ... more before! :D C'mon kids, join in the chant!

More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! ...

Who says that the slogan has to be written on a t-shirt? (http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=72471#post72471) ;)

[mothra]

How the heck do I win a prize?!?!?!

and,

More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before! More Before!

[valerie]

still waiting on stoneyyy, the Test Market guy. Come on, where's my team...Arty? Arsby? Lep? Lemark? They don't seem to like our product!

[Techman]

So, val...about your coffee....I wanted to know if......:eek:...Uhm....er....yeah...eh.....how do ya...um....hold on a sec...:o

2991


[Goes down the hall, takes a left...restroom door shuts!]

[abbyfanuk]

As product-testing photos go, that's got to be the best "before" pic ever.
I can tell I'm going to be late for work, checking out the video that inspired the shirt!

[TowelBoy]

Dear Valerie,

...............2992

You must know what I am going to say about that plaited Pigtail / Ponytail ... ?
Also the way you have " Them " thrust out ... :o
Are you trying to displace Christiana in the next " Lara Croft " video ?

I found it hard to look at your Eyes in that Photo.
:)
TowelBoy

[matchless]

still waiting on stoneyyy, the Test Market guy. Come on, where's my team...Arty? Arsby? Lep? Lemark? They don't seem to like our product!
I never said I didn't like the product ... but I really likes the before picture :D

more before ... more before ... more before ... more before ... more before ... more before ... more before ...

Teehehe ... ;)

[artlover]

A case of fine gherkins is on its way to AW World HQ... while I pull myself back into the chair I fell out of!! :) thanks, Val... you made my week! I think the team has been stunned by your beauteous bosom and That Pigtail. My oh my.

[sorbet]

any of the staff ever spend a work day nude at AW??

[matchless]

We have casual Fridays, why not naked Sunday? (not out of disrespect to certain religion's Sabbath ... just because on sunny days being naked can be fun; albeit, with ample sunscreen applied liberally to protect the skin)

[abbyfanuk]

Interesting suggestion, but I get the impression Vid Dude would be both hopelessly distracted and somewhat inconvenienced by the result... and that's assuming nobody decides to bludgeon him with one of Abby's spare tripods if they think his, er... "reaction" is inappropriate :p

[artlover]

Maybe Topless Tuesdays. I'll bet the delivery people would love that! "No, Miss Valerie, I will be more than happy to inspect each and every sheet of photocopy paper, purely for purposes of quality control. I shall also be delighted to offer you handy tits, er, tips, for operating the copy machine..."

[abbyfanuk]

If I knew an office that did that, I'd have to start bribing the UPS guy to let me do his deliveries...

[Vid Dude]

If Matilda and Valerie had their way, every day would be naked day.

[valerie]

Does that mean it's ok to do it? oh ma-TIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL-daaaaa~! Come here, let's get the scissors and make it Naked Day today! First stop: Christiana!

[christiana]

Oh christ!!!!

*Runs out of the office and down the street*

I like the top I'm wearing! Get the scissors away from it!!

[Margaret]

What are you girls doing in there today? You are having way too much fun for a friday!!!! nah not really, i like it.

Keep it up, makes the working day funky fun! Oh Christiana, can i have a picture of cut top!!!!

[christiana]

So far I've managed to keep my top on. But if Val gets to it, I promise I'll post a picture.

[Techman]

So far I've managed to keep my top on. But if Val gets to it, I promise I'll post a picture.

Did she really come after you? :D

[valerie]

So far I've managed to keep my top on. But if Val gets to it, I promise I'll post a picture.

Is that a hint or an invitation?

[Margaret]

Duh, i wanted to see you with a half chopped up top. Hmmm.... maybe Val should attack Matilda. Yeah that would be fun.

[Techman]

Valerie. You know what's funny?

We're trying to get a slogan and campaign going...and all people can talk about is topless day!

Hey, I admit it. I got distracted...

[sorbet]

have a masturbation day!!

but seriously, are there rules being nude? -
since ViD dude is like a brother to all the staff it would be odd - like walking around nude in front of you brother, how odd would that be; and I am sure vid dude thinks of all AW staff as sisters. lucky for us, we dont feel that way.

[Luxman]

have a masturbation day!!

but seriously, are there rules being nude? -
since ViD dude is like a brother to all the staff it would be odd - like walking around nude in front of you brother, how odd would that be; and I am sure vid dude thinks of all AW staff as sisters. lucky for us, we dont feel that way.

How about a "shake your head" day.
The previous post is a good base to simplify the task.

Lxm
still shaking his head

[lemark]

I have not forggoten you, your philosophys in consciounsness ;
have me couched, following your thoughts around these boards;
it was you who , in your imagination,saw who i really was; avant-garde;
AS you have some to love, I also , along with a little human;

[Aladin]

Hi Valerie
Just passing through your thread I found this stone bench in your garden.
I'll rest in the sun for a little while, listening to the nice music (Breathe by Chuck Wild) playing softly.
I heard a girl laugh a minute ago.. Was it you? Kiss.

[matchless]

I'm sorry to butt in here, changing the topic, but since the topic is Valerie let me just say I hope she doesn't mind.

I think she would want to see this from this week's issue of the ONION: America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/47719)
April 25, 2006 - Milwaukee - Grease Fire Rages Through Midwest

... and that's just the headline! You want more laughs, follow the link to read the story ;)

[valerie]

I think there already is an International Masturbation Day...still, something fun to think about isn't it!!

I must say, what I love best in this thread is when there's just conversation going on amongst everyone. Sorta like having all the neighborhood kids over and giving them all cookies. Not looking for the 'great cookies Mz Valerie!' just for the kids getting the sugar high. Er, no, they'd be healthier than cookies, actually. Hmmm...pumpkin soup? 'Thanks for the soup Mz Valerie!' ?? less plausible. But yay for conversation!

I was talking to some guys at a party on Friday and if the crowd is correct I'll say that I work for an adult website. All other conversation will sometimes stop, and while i never reveal the details ('which site?' 'have you done it?' 'can you get me a membership?') i am often asked about what the working environment is like, and somehow i always mention how there's boobs everywhere. That it's cool to lift one's top from time to time, etc. Clearly one of the truest perks is this possibility! (and there's no pressure to wear heaps of makeup, perfume, and ugh! stockings every day)

LEMARK! Are you saying you're a daddy??? <3 or an uncle or a big brother? Still, that's a beautiful image, wow.

Aladin, I love the way you put words together, I still remember you discussing finding the Lady in the Garden room, mentioning the Videos, waiting to hear more from you... Come here for a bit of tea, salami and cheeses fresh from the cellar, let's also get the Help to bring a few glasses and a bottle, bring the missus (or not) and let's catch up properly. May I get someone to take your coat for you? Please, pass the olives...

Hey Matchless, I love the onion, thanks for sharing! You can actually buy it here in Australia at some larger bookstores, how cool is that? Of course it's SOOOOO expensive, especially when I'm used to getting it for free! Ewwwww, grease. I try to avoid that stuff, sorry to see the deep-fried beer-battered cheese curds go though, yuuummmmmm

[matchless]

... I love the onion, thanks for sharing!Anytime ... oh, and btw, great cookies :D I especially love how they don't leave a bad aftertaste (http://www.spam.com/) ;)... Ewwwww, grease. I try to avoid that stuff, sorry to see the deep-fried beer-battered cheese curds go though, yuuummmmmm
I love the pictures in that article. I picked it up last night when I went to City Market for something ... anything but the usual (okay, I admit it, I was hoping to see a pretty woman that caught my i the day before ...) I went with Chicken Noodle soup, a small fruit cup, and for my treat, the carrot cupcake :p Needless to say, I had a hard time eating and drinking while reading ... about the woman, maybe next time <3

[Techman]

3065 Huh? Where'd the party go? Helloooooe!? Anyone here!? Cherry Chupa-Chups anyone?


....<crickets chirping>......


[disgruntledly Techchic...hops out of the room...]

[valerie]

OoOh wait, don't go...

I've got a funny story, when I was at the gym last week I wore the 'spice your jerkin' top, but inside out. So if you just looked at me, you'd have to really stare to see what it read, which I didn't catch anyone doing. But of course gyms are lined with mirrors, so doing my sets infront of one I could read it clear as day! hahaha, I think everyone in there assumes I'm a dyke, which is fine. I do not have Australian sports fashion down, I wear socks jocked up because I haven't shaved my legs in about a month (though tonight I'm going with short socks, we'll REALLY feel lez tonight Val!) and then I wear boyish gym shorts, actually built for men so my larger rear looks awkward in them. And a boy-ish mantop. It's great! Plus I grunt and stuff when I do my sets, and can finally do a chin-up again...

So last time I went, I was on the 45-degree squat machine when I realised the shorts I was wearing had a hole in them. Well, ok, i knew they had a hole in the crotch, but I was wearing really grodey old undies too, that also had a hole in them...so I looked up from a squat, the kind where you've got your feet splayed and you roll your hips out as you bring the weight down (on your back). I look up, knees far apart, to see a curled tuft of black fluff poking out through the rip in my shorts. I was SOOO embarrassed. I'm sure no one saw, and even more sure no one was looking, but good god, I'm throwing out those undies and sewing up those shorts!

Hahaha, there ya go, Techman! Please tell me a story of your own.

Oooh, and I want to know who is lurking, too! If you're a lurker (are there even any :( ) Please just say 'hi!' you can go back lurking then... yay!

[Randomthoughts]

Hiya Valerie,
I could do some consulting work with techniques to bring in lurkers and new members to your thread. I have a reference available upon request, I am sure you may be aware of the conditions of the contract!
:D
RT...

[valerie]

Oooh! Wow!

Dear Mr Thoughts, Sir:
Hi Random. May I please enlist your services to bring forth the lurkers? Does this (http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=81650#post81650) count for payment? Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Valerie

[flatspin]

Valerie
Hi! Lurker here just looking for updates in the slogan campaign and absolutely not being distracted by pics of the best set of ....... Sorry. Oh and yes, you should give serious consideration to RT's offer of consulting work. I'ts already worked on me!

[greycat]

ok, I suppose I'm a lurker too, will come out of the woods, but basically dont feel all that wordy, can only say that I totally love your (1) videos, (2) zuchini, (3) posts, (4) extra pics, (you may have paid Mr. Thoughts, but your payments go a long way), (5) what gym was that? (6) pre- and post-t-shirt, (7) natural appeal, (8) smile, (9) eyes, (10) ( and goes on and on and on and on..........). -gc<3<3<3

[Randomthoughts]

:D Greycat, with Valerie allowing us more and more insight into her thoughts and images..we could be like the Energizer Bunny. Keep going and going...and going...

Keep the lurkingggg to a minimummmm and your postinggggg to a maximummmmmm. Exit stage right!!!
(Who was that cat?)

;)
RT...

[alexbee]

:D Greycat, with Valerie allowing us more and more insight into her thoughts and images..we could be like the Energizer Bunny. Keep going and going...and going...

Keep the lurkingggg to a minimummmm and your postinggggg to a maximummmmmm. Exit stage right!!!
(Who was that cat?)

;)
RT...

Was it Thylvethter? Naw, he was the "I taught I taw a puddy tat" cat.

[abbyfanuk]

Was it Thylvethter?
Nah... Snagglepuss. Pink, but not a panther.

[Randomthoughts]

Thanks Abbyfanuk, I was racking my lil brain trying to remember that guy!
3094
RT...

[abbyfanuk]

I have a tremendous capacity for trivia. Which is weird, because I'm useless at general knowledge questions. Usually, the only sports-related fact I can summon to mind is the name of the player who scored a hat-trick for England in the 1966 World Cup final.

[valerie]

RT, it worked it worked! Big hug and a smooch for you!

Valerie
Hi! Lurker here just looking for updates in the slogan campaign and absolutely not being distracted by pics of the best set of ....... Sorry. Oh and yes, you should give serious consideration to RT's offer of consulting work. I'ts already worked on me!
Hey flatspin, so glad you could join in here! I loved your story about the train painter, i thought that was hilarious! Thanks for the kind words on my twin girls, heh. I love em, too. They like the attention, especially hands-on, mouths-on. I asked my partner last night to do sorta what happened in Liandra's IM, he was playing with my boobs, licking, sucking, flicking his tongue over my nipples, plunging his face into my cleavage, grabbing and kneading them, and I was playing with myself. It was great! (He owes me a couple of orgasms, see...)

Greycat, you're a star, thanks so much! Heh, I was a bit intimidated to ask Verity if I could get a zuke for my IM, but she was so chill...only after the vid came out did i realise how unusual it was for the site. What can I say, I'm an insertions girl. Do you like clit girls or insertion girls better, in general (i know, so many exceptions to every general statement...) Hahaha, the gym is an all-women gym, unfortunately, which means I have to pay more and don't get to show off in front of other guys. I find having men around a real motivator. I've done some nudie pix for a friend and had a male photog and it was a very different experience to this...

but really, it's your compliments on 7, 8, and 9 that mean the most to me. Almost embarrassed to acknoledge stuff like that, what a sweetie you are! You don't have to be wordy, see, just say the RIGHT words. <3

Yes, RT, I see your plan, but awareness doesn't decrease its power over me...I sorta like posting extra pics, I think it's fun. Another few weeks at the gym and I'll show you all my muscles, oooooooh heh, I'm gonna be so ripped. And I'll post a good pic for ya'll...

Hi Alexbee!

Abbyfanuk, so who was that player? ;)

[Randomthoughts]

Ahhh Valerie, you are magnificent! I saved your breast shot in my all time favs. I have Archive, then Fav and then All Time Favs.
Your picture is at level 3 in a commanding presence! (I only have about 25 photos in there over the years)

Bless your parents for giving you what you got!
;)
RT...

[lemark]

This is Mrs Lenmark Valerie l have been lurking around these treads for a while what would you like to know about Mr Lenmark
we have been together for 14 years and have a little girl 11 years of age

[valerie]

Hello, darling! Glad to hear you're enjoying the site, lurking about, and not all uptight as some might be. And a little Lemark as well, that's awesome. Quite an imaginative partner you've found yourself, good on ya. 14 is a lot of years, i hope i make it that far as well. Do you have a favourite model?

[greycat]

:o:D;)<3and in answer, passion works either way, but as a visual image, insertions. with my partner, I like to kiss from the outside and touch from the inside at the same time, it seems to work!

[greycat]

greycat to oz, greycat to oz, come in, oz; anyone there?

[valerie]

Oz to greycat. This is valerie. We read you. Over.

[greycat]

g'day! delighted to see signs of highly intelligent life in this universe (the Valerieverse?) again. thought everyone had suddenly decided to turn off the lights. Visiting Chicago this week, cool and wet, like I gather Australia is also. winter there, just plain weird late spring here. nothing profound , it is EARLY here, just checking last night's voice tossed into the void. bye for now, very much enjoyed finding a response here. other threads may come and go ( and lately be filled with people sending spiteful little snipes at each other, what's with THAT?), but calm here. thx. adios por ahora, -gc

[Leprechaun]

I was reading through some threads this morning and appreciating the recent arrival to the wards er, boards, here of a bunch of new members, and I was yet again considering my life-changing good fortune at ever having stumbled into this nest of wackos and dingbats. In particular I was thinking of sending a PM to Techman telling him how glad I was that he had come along and it struck me while composing it in my head that "intelligent sense of humour" is such an awkward term and I wondered why there wasn't a single word for it. The answer, of course, is because it's such a rare phenomenon in the ordinary world (almost entirely absent from television, which so hermetically circumscribes most people's worldview) that there's really no general need to assign it it's own word. But in this place there's such a remarkable concentration of brilliant wits that an easier term to describe it is needed. I came up with "funtelligent". I have no doubt or objection that it can be improved upon here (go to it, gang) but for the moment it does have the advantage of being understandable to people who've never seen it before (not to mention the fact that stripped of the leading "f" it would even describe me). So anyway, having found a word, I thought why punish Techman with a PM when I could embarrass him in public and tar the whole lot of ya with the same brush? And so I shall:

Thank you, thank you, one and all for being the largest assembly of dear, sweet, funtelligent creatures & beings this side of the next parallel universe.

Of course the rest of the world doesn't see it quite the same way but they have made today (yesterday in Oz, I guess) a special one just for what they must consider to be the biggest collection of sick and sorry muthas ever to come down the pike. So I'll throw in a "Happy Mother's Day" while I'm at it.

Uh-oh, Greycat, you mean like "today the World, tomorrow the Universe?" Are we gonna have to make Val T-shirts with little pictograms like the ones NASA sends off to nowhere? About the only thing I can reliably draw is disparaging comments on my attempts at art but, from what I've seen, the perfect man for that job would be our own blessed Blissed.

And, hey, Blissed! - I dunno who the people are in those other forums you visit but they couldn't possibly love you more than we do so don't make yourself scarce around here, okay?

- L

[blissed]

Hey thanks Leprechaun, thats nice of you :)

[valerie]

Lep!! <bounds up to ol' Leppy for a big bear hug> Yay!! I like you, you're swell!

Yes, I agree, with you, and Blissed, and Arty, Arsby, BigSpud, GC, Lemark, AbbyFan, RT, tech, and so on, relative newcomers like flatspin <waves> and old faves like Matchless and Aladin (special place in my <3 for Al) ... and on and on, even Stoneyyy and Elfy/SZ/Sorbet have their brutish charms...

Plus other models and ladies, Mrs R, hotdawgwife when she's around, Gabrielle, Liandra, Christiana, Tanya, Paula, and on and on...i like how much energy people have, too, creative potential put to action. Head pats all around, I say, i'll buy the house a round.

--------

In other news, I am reading Ulysees, by James Joyce. Has anyone else read it? It's a monster to be sure. Finnigan's Wake is next on my list. I saw someone here has his username "LeoBloom" how cool is that? (Main character in Ulysees is Leonard Bloom - could be coincidence though.)

[Randomthoughts]

Val, you have a great sense about you.
(I think Lep would more appreciate a bare hug though...)
You have such a strong communal following in your thread! *Pats on the back*
Ulysees...how bout Ul'ysees more pics of yerself nakid? Ohh I am a failure at humor sometimes, but half the battle is admitting it!
:cool:
RT...

[artlover]

What I like about you, RT, is that you have no shame whatsoever about your puns... :) And thanks for the recognition, Lep and Val. The boards are a cool place to be.

[greycat]

Leo Bloom is also one of the lead characters, the one played by Gene Wilder in the movie, in the Producers by Mel Brooks. hhmmmm... but then it may all be circular references. Ulysses -> Mel Brooks -> The Producers -> LeoBloom on here -> read Ulysses? everything is connected to everything else. or what was the line, everyone on earth is only separated by six degrees of separation or something like that. maybe we are all no more than six degrees from joyce. as in, maybe my college english teacher's prof once met a retired prof from UK, who once met Joyce, something like that. there are certainly a few people I'd rather be 20 or 300 or 2000 degrees separated from, but ABSOLUTELY NONE of them are on AW ( well, now that I mention it, there is no knowing who are some of the noms-de-internet around here... WAAHHH!!). -gc

[Leprechaun]

(I think Lep would more appreciate a bare hug though...)

RT, do you have something against me? Since the day you got here you've been trying to get me to die of laughter (and I probably shouldn't tell you how close you've come oh so many times) and since that hasn't worked (yet) now yer tryin' to bump me off with a heart attack!

Speaking of hearts... Though it could have gone anywhere in the AW forums, there's a reason why a Valerie thread is the most appropriate place to have posted my previous message. Val, not to embarrass you (but, hey, we're all friends here), in addition to your brains, your beauty, your bosom, and your bush, there's that which beats beneath your breast. Long ago in a far off thread, when things were getting a little dicey, you said (http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=72189), "i got room in my heart for EVERYONE who posts on my threads." And it's true, you really do. Those words, your attitude to life which they so typify - in short, you - are an inspiration to me. I know that as a Bhuddist you strive to do good in the world and can accept that it may have to be done in small ways over and over again. Well, be happy to know that oft's the time I think of you, and those words, and it helps me be a better person. No doubt you consider yourself lucky to have found Bhuddism but I'll bet somewhere in their teachings is the concept that it's always a two-way street; to this layman it looks like Bhuddism is just as lucky to have found you. You're a credit your faith, to AbbyWinters.com, to your gender, and to the human race. If you had a double mastectomy, if you shaved yourself from head to toe, if you adopted a chadra and covered your face with a veil, it wouldn't diminish my feelings for you a whit. And lest you or anyone else think I'm saying this to get a hug or a kiss or a compliment in return, let me hasten to say that, while the words may be mine, I know - I know! - that what they express is shared by posters to your threads, your worthy colleagues at AW, and probably most everyone who really knows you. (You don't even have to tell hubby what some guy said today because he already knows all this anyway. But if you do, tell him that the guy isn't trying to woo you and, envious tho he may be, he fully respects and admires the man you choose to share your life with.) There! I've finally said it all in one place at one time. Remember this - it won't change - and I'll never have to embarrass you, me, or any of the rest of the gang with sappy compliments again.

<3,

- L

p.s. Of course I've read Ulysses. And Finnegan's Wake as well. (I had an Irish Setter named Finnegan and I could tell some tales about what would get left in that Finnegan's wake!) Also, I don't think it's possible that LeoBloom could be a coinkadink; the cat's hip.

[abbyfanuk]

(Main character in Ulysees is Leonard Bloom - could be coincidence though.)
Funny, I always thought that was Leopold Bloom... says the man who always means to make it to Bloomdsay in Dublin ;)
Joyce is pretty interesting - heavy going in places, especially given his stream-of-consciousness writing style and the lack of recognisable speech punctuation, but I've found it makes quite a rewarding read. That said, I also found it was much easier to start with his Dubliners collection.

Six degrees of separation? Hmm. Either we're going to start playing the Kevin Bacon Game, or somewhere out there in my extended network are a few AW models...

[matchless]

I always thought the member who used the name LeoBloom was referencing the character from the movie (http://imdb.com/title/tt0063462/)/musical (http://www.producersonbroadway.com/)/movie-of-the-musical (http://imdb.com/title/tt0395251/) The Producers ... which says a lot about my general frame of reference :rolleyes: I do read books, but the only reason the stuff on my book shelf takes up more room than my videos and DVDs is because books are bigger ... and heavier! I may be broke, but for some reason I tend to buy hardcover books whenever I do buy books. Call me Idiot ... ;)

[Techman]

I thought why punish Techman with a PM when I could embarrass him in public and tar the whole lot of ya with the same brush? And so I shall

Thanks Leprechaun. Glad your appreciate my attempt at humor. At times it can get quite hectic around AWHQ. My job as you know is to serve coffee, Chup-Chups and generally be the office gofer.

Sometimes I get overwhelmed. I think this photo sums up how Valerie sometimes makes me feel...

...every once in a while she'll tease me by flashing her mammary glands at me. Oh, the envy!

3204

[Randomthoughts]

Techmah!

Valerie makes you feel like you have a cute little pecker?
LoL....
:D
RT...

[Techman]

Techmah!

Valerie makes you feel like you have a cute little pecker?
LoL....
:D
RT...

LOL! No, more like an overwhelmed little bird...slaving away in the kitchen.;)

[matchless]

Valerie makes you feel like you have a cute little pecker?
Not that I don't appreciate your attempt at humour, RT, but I gotta say I don't think there's anything wrong with having a cute little pecker <3

... or slaving away in the kitchen, Techman ;)

[artlover]

How much wood would a peckerwood... oh, never mind...

[valerie]

Lep, I'm speechless! I have read and reread your post a few times. Thank you, especially for the respect you've shown. <3:o

Also, but not to dimish the effect of the words above, if you ever have any questions about Buddhism, please feel free to ask. It's like Christianity and the other major religions in that many laypeople practicing it have lost touch a bit with its true meaning. (Think lots of weird prayers and incense must be lit at this time of day and these words said, must acquire such and so miniature statue, similar to people just 'showing up' to Church and then cussing at each other in the parking lot...)

yeah, it probably is Leopold. Clearly I'm struggling with the text! Hubby and I picked up Finnigan's Wake last night for a laugh, the thing MUSt be read out loud. You've read them both?! Did you find them accessible? What do you think of the an-organ-for-each-chapter thingo on Ulysees?

By the way, I always get a smile on my face reading your humour (your = you plural). Gotta run now, will write more later. Please keep talking here, makes me feel like I'm at a nice party, just absorbing stuff. yay!

[abbyfanuk]

Yes, I'm a sucker for punishment - I read Dubliners in high school for English class, and picked up Ulysses a year or so ago as "holiday reading" (it was in a 3-for-2 sale, and I still haven't finished it!). Dubliners was a lot more accessible and easy to dip in and out of... Ulysses is a bit of a pain to pick up and put down, to be honest, but it's marvellous once you hit your stride. It's an important text in the concept of postmodern literature.
I might have to pick it up and start all over again, now...

Personally, I've never quite understood religion; I think it must be a great advantage in life to have some form of faith from which you can draw solace at difficult times. Puts me in mind of what Marx said, actually...

[greycat]

dear Val; I practice soto zen, albeit not very good at it, at least I dont have to be good at it, that's sort of part of the deal. although it matters not in any real meaning, might I ask which tradition of buddhism you practice? -gc

[matchless]

... if you ever have any questions about Buddhism, please feel free to ask. It's like Christianity and the other major religions in that many laypeople practicing it have lost touch a bit with its true meaning. (Think lots of weird prayers and incense must be lit at this time of day and these words said, must acquire such and so miniature statue, similar to people just 'showing up' to Church and then cussing at each other in the parking lot...)
Now I've seen it all ... an open invitation to talk about religion. "Rebel, rebel!"

btw, artie ... very sly. "Oh well, whatever ..." ;)

[Luxman]

:eek: Valerie!!!

Lxm

[Diablo]

Luxy, this is the point at which you ask for a payrise ;)

However, I'm sure we all have highly-held respect for Valerie, and wish not to clutter up her thread in misguided polywaffle. Hopefully, as enlightened beings, we can apply common sense and carefully devise questions that don't draw entirely from opinion or unfounded speculation.

Val: Out of interest, how long have you practised Buddhism for? Was there any particular personal experience or revelation that influenced your decision to take it up?

I'm not asking for anyone's opinion, just curious, that's all...

[blissed]

Now I've seen it all ... an open invitation to talk about religion. "Rebel, rebel!"

btw, artie ... very sly. "Oh well, whatever ..." ;)


As far as I know, Budhism isn't a religion.

[matchless]

As far as I know, Budhism isn't a religion.
Well, then :o please enlighten me! :)

BTW, the hotels I stayed at in Japan had Gideon's Bible and the teachings of The Buddha (sorry, can't 'member the actual title) in their desk drawers. But some hotels didn't have anything. It was either both or none. I almost took one of those Buddha books home with me but it just felt wrong to "steal" that from the hotel. Pens and matchbooks are all I take with me from these places nowadays.

[Randomthoughts]

Pens and matchbooks are all I take with me from these places nowadays.

Then you are not really Matchless....

Val - we may be heading on a slippery slope here. Could you please some how distract us from getting off topic?
IMO- Lep deserved a big 4 leaf clover for his post...:cool:

RT...

[matchless]

Then you are not really Matchless....
No ... I explained my name already; in fact, it was in a thread (http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=66965#post66965) that you started :p

I don't know what's right from wrong but I do know I often flirt with the taboo topics. But consider this: Val is not only a model but also a staff member. Here in the "Models Speak" forum, more leeway is given to what the models wish to discuss in their thread. Vid Dude and Luxman have the final say, but IMO, the only way this could get out of hand and become a problem is if one of us members posts something negative about religion. I think Val, blissed and many others might have something to tell or or teach us about their beliefs. I do recall blissed explained his BS ... :rolleyes: what an interesting acronym ... in another thread and the post was not deleted -- because he did not denigrate anyone else's beliefs in the process. He just said, this is what I believe and left it at that.

Earlier today, I took an online test to determine what "religion" is most compatible with you/me. It said, "m, your belief system is best suited to religions that value open mindedness." You see, mr. blissed, I always suspected we had more in common than we don't ;)

And, btw Mr. Randomthoughts, that's matchless with a lower case "m", thank you very much.

As a beautiful woman said to me yesterday, "Have a nice day :) "

[Randomthoughts]

Sorry I matchless. It was a pun and I thought you would appreciate it. I also apologize for the Uppercase spelling of your name in reference to the post.
Won't happen again.

RT...

[Vid Dude]

Discussing religion as a topic of interest is usually fine. But anyone who says "my religion is right, those others are wrong" or starts proselytizing in any way, will only cause upset. Luckily that's not happened yet, we've had more trouble with political stances, and even that is minor.

[valerie]

Woah guys, woah. Let's calm down. Everyone grab a cushion, have a seat, and relax (with good posture). At the sound of the bell, breathe in slowly, watching and observing your breath, and breathe out slowly, observing only the breath, and letting all other thoughs go. Two more breaths...

...
...

[valerie]

With Buddhism (technically a religion, but i follow more a philosophy inspired by it), "there are 10,000 paths" (to enlightenment, but to anywhere really), so there's no right or wrong religion, buddhists are the first to admit that buddhism is not for everyone and in no way should be pushed upon people.

So much suffering that people go through is unnecessary, due mainly to attachments and expectations. As we all know, nothing is permanent, and the only thing certain in life is death. But the time of death is uncertain. That alone is enough to play with now to be thinking about things!

Also, people tend to 'love' and 'hate' things, such as 'i love getting chocolate cake on my birthday' and 'i hate when i miss the tram'. loving choc cake on your b-day is fine, but suppose your family buys you a vanilla one one year. Now what, are you going to be miserable? Silly goof!

Or suppose you miss the tram. Now, because that's "who you are" you should be miserable. WHY?! There's a zillion things to do waiting for the next tram, like watching the leaves flutter, cleaning out your wallet, enjoying watching the cars stream by, meditating, and so forth.

"Ok" you say "so i'll be ambivalent to everything and not give a fuck." Ah but now you're losing the JOY of watching cars go by, and JOY of sharing delicious vanilla cake with your family. You're an apathetic lump! Come on, let's run around and be happy together instead!

So to practice being in a 'here and now, enjoying this vanilla cake, watching cars go by' mode, we meditate, practicing releasing thoughts, thoughts which - for me at least - just lead to me suffering more and being miserable. That's just one tiny bit of Buddhism. What does everyone think?

[Randomthoughts]

I sucked it in and I like it. If you are Buddhist, do you die and go some where? I don't need to believe in that.
Sounds interesting there Val!

RT...

[valerie]

Abbyfanuk - how was Dubliners? Hubby said it was great!! I'm def going to read it in the next...few years...that's hilarious you got Ulysees on sale, 3-for-2? Is that even legal with books that big?

greycat - COOOOOOOOOLLLLLLL! Tell me more! How often do you sit? Do you do loving-kindness meditations often or just breathing? I spent some time in a soto zen convent in Japan...do you do Tea Ceremonies and stuff? <fascinated!>

I got into Buddhism when I was in Japan, and never stopped being into it. The more Thich Nhat Hanh I read, the more I want to know! I have some pretty hardcore allergies and Buddhism has really helped me deal with the effects, and I think helped me become a happier, more approachable, well-adjusted person. Happiness is "the" goal i think! (long-term, we're talking)

Matchless, perhaps look into Buddhism to see if it gels with you. It's definitely about being open-minded! PM me for info on the Milwaukee Mindfulness Centre, a great group of people.

Vid Dude/ dear-sweet-Luxy - is it cool if we discuss the philosophy? I promise I won't try to convert people to any Buddhist "diety" or teach "prayers" (cos that stuff isn't in Buddhism really...) if it gets out of hand, I vest in you my consent to any moderating you may do or recommend.

[matchless]

I enjoy slouching ... ;)

Normally, I wouldn't stress about missing the tram/bus, but if I'm on my way to work, there could be a problem.

I love lemon cake ... my twist on an old motto (I'm such a cynic) is, "when life gives you lemons, suck!"

In Japan, I saw a lot of temples, always left some change and "prayed" ... but I was never really sure if the temples were Buddhist or Shinto. Maybe I can post some pictures and get info, retro-wise? :)

Thanks for the reference, Val. I'll look it up in the book. I think I need to work on my body more though. Any thoughts on Yoga ... good tapes or online resources (Don't even suggest I go out in public and do it with others :o I'm a little too Boo Radley these days.)

[greycat]

city where I live does not have a major buddhist sector. a zen group crossing over Tich Nat hahn vietnamese zen and soto zen met together for years. group has migrated toward greater role of soto zen via the sanfrancisco zen center tradition to our quite regional city. we have an american zen priest and master for three years now. I dont sit enough, mostly at our zen center (read, small house) 1x/wk. have some tourette's and find sitting difficult, though have done several 3-day retreats anyway. I have no doubt any other approach would not work at all for me, but I'm not great at this one. oh well, still darn glad to find it. our zen ctr during retreats does formal orioki practice, and is somewhat more amuurican casual about tea after sits, etc. our center has about 50 regular members, maybe half have sewn a raksu and taken soto precxepts. I have received lay precepts of Tich Naht Hanh tradition, but then got all neorotic about living up to them, so released them. still makes no difference in basic taking refuge and four truths, pretty general and basic. our priest has practised in Japan at a couple of temples, and her master too, although all are american. I have not retreated further than central (oops, a state not know for much buddhist pracrtice, among aother things, full of people one of whom used to be governor and now has a job in Washington where he causes far too much grief, but at least we have a nice town named Oztin that is fairly progressive). part of my state, for short retreats. one other city in state (Oztin, again) has a zen center and a priest, so two in the state now. good on that. going on a bit long. having actually studied in Japan is awesome, very major step, posssibly. love to discuss further if his viddudeship doesn't rule too pholosophical, etrc.
-gc

[abbyfanuk]

how was Dubliners? Hubby said it was great!! I'm def going to read it in the next...few years...that's hilarious you got Ulysees on sale, 3-for-2? Is that even legal with books that big?
Dubliners was superb. Took a couple of re-readings, but it really grew on me. I think you'll like it.
As for the legality of 3-for-2 sales... well, the local bookshop seems to do it quite often across all kinds of types of book - then again, they also have a "Try Me for 99p!" shelf, half-price hardbacks, special offers on bestsellers... I think they just get favourable terms from the wholesaler, and while their profits might not be as high as if they'd sold the books at full price, there will still be substantial turnover increases and a good profit in it for them. Believe me, sales like that cost me a lot of money ;)

Anyway, on with the philosophical stuff... I'm interested now...

[Techman]

Valerie, it figures that you would be interested in Buddhism; you are centered (and I know you know what I mean). I haven't studied too much about Buddhism other than I learnd in History (years ago in High-School). But I was required to do some reading about Zen teachings later in life (martial arts).

Here's a clipping from Wiki...I've put in BOLD my favorite part.

Zen is not primarily an intellectual philosophy nor a solitary pursuit. Zen temples emphasize meticulous daily practice, and hold intensive monthly meditation retreats. Practicing with others is valued as a way to avoid the traps of ego. In explaining the Zen Buddhist path to Westerners, Japanese Zen teachers have frequently made the point that Zen is a way of life and not solely a state of consciousness. D.T. Suzuki wrote that the aspects of this life are: a life of humility; a life of labor; a life of service; a life of prayer and gratitude; and a life of meditation. Zen teachings often criticize textual hermeneutics and the pursuit of worldly accomplishments, concentrating primarily on meditation in pursuit of an unmediated awareness of the processes of the world and of the mind

[greycat]

good choice of quotes, Techman. DT Suzuki was first zenguy I encountered, many years ago. although more sociological than about zen per se, his zen and japanese culture is outstanding. zen types I know have a habit (so non-zen) of having many many books about buddhism, knowing full well that zen is not books. but I think still looking for the occasional turn of phrase, or descriptive moment, that gives some clue. the history can be written, I suppose. and convincing the mind to not try to read it thinking that's experience. a few writers worked a bit for me, maybe best Buddhism without Beliefs, Stephen Batchelor, title says it all at about 3 levels. writer is in UK, went through tibetan, korean, and zen B, then arrived at a sort of agnostic buddhism, seems to work for me. oh well, if you talk about it (i.e. me) you probably aren't doing it. damn paradoxes! or maybe, yeaahh paradoxes!!

which martial art? studied tai chi for same years, might not qualify as martial art but at least gives a hint. could watch the kung fu people across the gym. studied cane form a bit, not classic tai chi, also sword, but that is so stylized, last time I tried to wear an old chinese style sword to work, well, didn't so well (not really).

adios y hasta luego. -gc

[inglari]

With Buddhism (technically a religion, but i follow more a philosophy inspired by it), "there are 10,000 paths" (to enlightenment, but to anywhere really), so there's no right or wrong religion, buddhists are the first to admit that buddhism is not for everyone and in no way should be pushed upon people.

So much suffering that people go through is unnecessary, due mainly to attachments and expectations. As we all know, nothing is permanent, and the only thing certain in life is death. But the time of death is uncertain. That alone is enough to play with now to be thinking about things!

Also, people tend to 'love' and 'hate' things, such as 'i love getting chocolate cake on my birthday' and 'i hate when i miss the tram'. loving choc cake on your b-day is fine, but suppose your family buys you a vanilla one one year. Now what, are you going to be miserable? Silly goof!

Or suppose you miss the tram. Now, because that's "who you are" you should be miserable. WHY?! There's a zillion things to do waiting for the next tram, like watching the leaves flutter, cleaning out your wallet, enjoying watching the cars stream by, meditating, and so forth.

"Ok" you say "so i'll be ambivalent to everything and not give a fuck." Ah but now you're losing the JOY of watching cars go by, and JOY of sharing delicious vanilla cake with your family. You're an apathetic lump! Come on, let's run around and be happy together instead!

So to practice being in a 'here and now, enjoying this vanilla cake, watching cars go by' mode, we meditate, practicing releasing thoughts, thoughts which - for me at least - just lead to me suffering more and being miserable. That's just one tiny bit of Buddhism. What does everyone think?

Not being qualified to say what everyone thinks, I will nonetheless express what I think (and, if I may be so bold, I can speak with some authority on this particular matter on which I am about to speak although there are plenty of others on which I cannot but because I have for the past sixteen years taught philosophy and religion I might just have a clear notion about this and as you may have guessed I just finished writing a piece to Julia-b about the wonders of rambles and I also see some discussion of Joyce here so I'll put in a plug for Gertrude Stein as well in form at least) (and that is not in fact what I think or what I set out to write about but perhaps I can use it later as an illustration of monkey mind): Buddhism is often classified as a religion, but it is not, by and large, a religion in the same way that the Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are religions. Indeed, in a certain respect, Buddhism is an anti-religion. It is not, generally speaking, proselytic (as Val says, people are not "pushed into it" -- although if one runs into ardent members of certain sects within Buddhism, one may cultivate a different view). It does not propose any "being" as the object of worship, or the goal of activity (as opposed to, for example, Christianity, which supposes a holy uncreated Being which (or Who) is the only proper object of worship, and Who proposes all proper goals of activity).

But let's step back a moment and consider the word "religion". I appreciate Vid Dude's limits on discussion. I understand the proscription on religion and politics as a general rule, because it is so easy to slide into a brawl, but a genuinely caring and interested examination of these matters is the core of human concern. Religion, as I use the term (much to the anguish of my students, who want a far more narrow definition) is a corporate approach to something understood as ultimate. By "corporate" I mean "social": a group of people approach the something together -- corporately, as a body. In Buddhism this "body" or "corporation" is called the Sangha (or Samgha; the "n" or "m" represents a retroflex sound we do not generally recognize in English; ask me some time about retroflexes). By "approach" I mean "find some way of getting at": this could be interpreted physically, emotionally, intellectually... most religions worth their salt engage as many ways of "getting at" the something as they can. By "something understood as ultimate" I mean that the "Ultimate" (that than which there is nothing greater; the biggest; the best; the most valuable -- get the picture? -- think abbywinters.com: Eureka! It's a RELIGIOUS website! Hey, honey, I'll be to dinner in just a minute, I have to finish this posting on my religious website :D ) is whatever "it" is: we don't know "it", or maybe we don't know "it"; as humans, perhaps we can never finally experience "it" -- however, we can and do have a lot of ideas and feelings about "it" (whatever it may be in itself). These are our "understandings" of the ultimate -- they define a religion. Thus, religion is a human process. As such, I submit, it is necessarily imperfect (that is my cultural training speaking -- I am the offspring of six generations of Christian ministry, but it is also the voice of experience, and indeed, the voice of the experience of the tradition of Buddhism, but more on that anon).

In this sense of "religion", Buddhism certainly is a religion: as I indicated, the corporation is the Sangha, the community of Buddhists. The approach is the "Dharma", the Law or Teaching. Mr m, it's hard to say what book you absconded with; Japan is a somewhat special case in its approach to Buddhism -- as you note, you were not sure whether the temples were Buddhist or Shinto, and that syncretism or merging of paths is strongly characteristic of Japan -- also of China and India, although in different ways; however, one of the major texts of Buddhism, considered to be the direct teaching of the most recent Buddha (for there are more than one: are you all confused yet?) is the Dhammapada: the Path of Dharma. Dharma is duty, the proper way of doing things, the way things are: but there are two levels to this. One is the social level -- the way folks say it should be. The other is the "deep" level: the way things really are. Buddhism aims to get at the "deep" level, and to do that it has cultivated an understanding of the ultimate based upon the experience of those who have "been" to the "deep level": they are called "Buddhas" because they have found buddhi: clear understanding of reality.

But, like Val, I am more oriented to think of Buddhism as a philosophy. Philosophy is love of wisdom, and "a philosophy" is some individual expression of that love, perhaps by one person, perhaps by a group who share the expression, or most aspects of it, anyway. Wisdom, as I understand it, is knowing what to do when it is right to do it.

How does one know what is right to do, and when to do it? Experience is a good teacher, but it is also a good way to be injured or killed. Better is to combine one's own experience with the guidance of someone with more experience, and particularly someone with good experience who can demonstrate the ability to know what is right to do and when to do it. I chose my guitar teacher on that basis (a very good one, too, I might add) -- why should I not chose my life teacher on the same basis? This is what Buddhism offers.

Now, Buddhism has no exclusive claim to wisdom. One can certainly get to the right place through any number of different paths (or so say I). What I find attractive about Buddhism is, first, its clarity, second, its compassion, and third, its assimilability, by which I mean one can be a "Jew-bu" (see, for example, the entertainingly titled Jew in the Lotus, a riff on the mantra of Chenrezi, Om Mani Padme Hum, meaning "Om! The Jewel in the Lotus! Hum!) or a Buddhist-Christian, or virtually any other combination (some would be harder to support than others).

The quotation from Val above gives a fine exposition of the problem of tanha or trsna, grasping, wishing for something and being attached to the wishing, thinking that one deserves something. Val's quotation also speaks to the compassion of Buddhism. Some traditions may approach the matter of grasping through guilt: you don't deserve anything! You are nothing compared to the great [fill in the tradition's view of the Ultimate]! You should feel bad about wanting more! Buddhism recognizes wanting, grasping, as a basic part of who we are, and provides a means by which to gently -- or in the Soto tradition to which Greycat refers, perhaps not so gently -- pry one away from that clinging.

Com-passion: feeling the passion together (and "passion", as Mel Gibson would not have us forget, ultimately means "suffering"); sym-pathy (means the same, but in Greek, not Latin: suffering together) is a way to free oneself from clinging. Finding joy in the vanilla cake allows one two essential experiences: first, to say "I am a bit of a silly goof, am I not?" and second, to say "my family cares for me enough to make me a cake, and when it comes down to it, that's far more important than vanilla or chocolate" (assuming no food allergies here and no clandestine designs on the eater's insurance;) ).

There is a third advantage to compassion, which is that in experiencing it, one can come to see that neither vanilla nor chocolate (to work from the example) is really all that significant, ultimately. Likes and dislikes equally hold us back from the goal.

A charming story, and one I think very pertinent to the context here, is told of two Buddhist monks, one older, one younger, travelling along the road. It starts to rain. They come to a river-crossing, swollen from the rain, and there, unable to cross because of the flood, is a ravishing woman (fill in your fave aw model), of course all voluptuously curvatious because of the rain pressing her silken garments against the noble curve of her neck and the darling breasts and the ... oh, er, ahem! :o So, to go on with the story, the older monk, who is a strong fellow, picks the woman up and carries her across the river, just like that, sets her down on the other side, and goes on his way. The younger monk follows, and as they walk along the road, it is clear that he is becoming more and more agitated. Finally, he bursts out: "You! My elder and my teacher! Do you pretend not to know that we monks are forbidden even to look at a woman, and you have picked one up, with her silken garments voluptuously pressed against the noble curve of her neck, etc. etc.!" The older monk turns to the younger and says, "I left that woman back at the stream; you are still carrying her."

Those things which bring us pleasure finally bring us suffering, too. Ultimately, one hopes one can reach a point where things happen, but one does not cling to the experience. Something pleasurable is happening -- great! let it, but don't mourn it when it's gone (I doubt that many Country and Western lyricists are Buddhists); something painful is happening -- all right! work through it, but know that it cannot last.

Dear RT: according to Buddhism as I understand it, when you die, "you" cannot cease to be, because it never was. One of the basic teachings of Buddhism is "anatman": no self. The idea of the "self" is an illusion created by a confluence of experiences and an experiencer: the body, sensation, perception, "karmic dispositions" (a phrase requiring some time to explain, more than I have now, as I told Calliope I would examine another matter, and I hear I am blathering about Buddhism), and consciousness. At death, these typically disperse, but they continue so long as one or another of them exist to join: thus it is possible to be "reincarnated", but it is not, properly, a reincarnation or new embodiment of a continuously existing self (as taught in Hinduism and Jaina, for example), but a new coalescence of old material. An analogy might be a seasonal pond: it dries up in Summer, but is filled again in spring. In a sense, it is "the same pond"; in another, it is just more water in the same place.

As Val indicates, nothing is sure save death, but, if one understands it properly (according to Buddhism), death is nothing to fear, indeed death is itself a sort of illusion.

How did I get here? There I was, reading student comment forms on my classes, and the next thing I know, here I am writing about Buddhism on a nude modelling site. What a strange and wonderful world this is.

Best wishes,

Prof I

[matchless]

Wow ...! inglari, that was quite a post. I'm going to have to read it several times.

Can someone tell me about Taoism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao) in such an entertaining and enlightening way? It's becoming more and more obvious that i would frustrate myself by trying to be too Buddhist. I really don't need more of that! :rolleyes:

It always seemed to me that, based on what little I know about Tao, George Lucas might have borrowed a few things from the one to inspire the other, and Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_%28Star_Wars%29) seems to agree with me.

[valerie]

inglari, woah. That was awesome. I know i know, literature is not the answer, but words *do* help me understand it, even if it's stuff I had read long ago. I need to put up poster and stuff about "don't get carried away by attachments" and "no expectations!" etc because I forget so often...and now the great Religion Prof himself has posted a gift for all to share that actually supports what I wrote! <hug for the prof>

Matchless, you could read the Tao of Pooh, which explains it all in a VERY entertaining way. Also, here's a very simple metaphor:

Consider each being to be a block. Consumerism would tell us that to be happy, we need to add things to this block. Then we will be nice, shaped like David, etc. Buddhism would tell us that inside each block is a perfect sphere of crystilline beauty. We need to carve away all the trappings of this world (likes/dislikes, expectations, ego, etc) and then, lo!, we find the prize. Taoism, however, would say: "sweet, a block! You're good to go!"

Taoists go with the flow, take what comes, and if something "goes wrong" they would probably say to themselves "oooh, let's just see where this goes". I think Verity was a bit Taoist... Taoism to me shows the attitude you'd have were you enlightened. Buddhism tells you how to get there. I often borrow from both when I go about my day, depending which one makes me more aware that it's cool to be happy.

Please, someone more learned than me on this, chime in!

[Leprechaun]

Did you find them [Ulysses and Finnegan's Wake] accessible? What do you think of the an-organ-for-each-chapter thingo on Ulysees?
To be perfectly honest, it's been so long since I read them (over three decades - more than an AW model's lifetime, by gum) I don't remember the organ-for-each-chapter.

I did find them accessible, tho perhaps not in the way a scholar would. There's an approach to language which I and others sometimes employ and that I see as an Irish trait (but by no means is it exclusive to the Irish). Words are like friendly little critters which, when fed a diet of humour rich in the absurd, non-sequitors, and nonsense - maybe spiced up with some irony, satire, and sarcasm - can be made to dance around and do all manner of clever and amusing things that they wouldn't ordinarily do. Individual words can change hats and mix up their identities, trade letters with each other or hide their meanings in plain site. They can run around in unruly groups or line up to form sentences that will bizarrely go where no words have gone before. This is kind of second nature to me and when I read Joyce I recognize it. All the scolarship applied to parseing the syntax and tracking down the allusions and references is a very good thing for revealing the mechanics of what he did and it must be done to get all his jokes. But I think the overall "meaning" of Joyce's books is not so much a part of semantics or linguistics, but rather wrapped up in the recondite and mysterious meaning of humour and how it interacts with language. I'm certainly not competent to explain the guy, this is just how I see it - I don't offer it as a key to understanding him, just an attempt to describe my approach and what I get out of his stuff. I don't know if this would hold up if I went back to re-read him. It's quite possible it was all an adolescent bluff to cover up the fact that I just didn't have the brains to understand him. I do believe he wanted to benignly (if not always comfortably) twist the minds of his readers and (not trying to be clever here) I think he's a lot easier to grasp if your mind is already a bit twisted in that way. I'd love to hear what Artlover has to say about this (somewhere on the boards he confessed to being a writing instructor, I think). Reading Joyce was kinda like what happened a couple of times when I had professors with very heavy accents. At first it would be extremely difficult to understand what they were saying but after a few classes I'd acclimate to their speech and the accent ceased to get in the way. Or like music that on first hearing sounds impossibly alien but after a few listens it starts to make sense and the next thing you know you're humming along with it like it was Mozart or Madonna. Like Artlover (see here (http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=75085)), I find Lemark's posts somewhat Joycean and when you said (http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=74672), "you gotta take it, like, 5 words at a go and let them float around a bit and draw some meaning outta their combo" I thought, Yeah, that would be a good approach to Joyce as well. (Hey, Lemark! Where are you? Are you still with us?) But when you say Finnegan's wake "MUSt be read out loud" - Holy potatoes, that's brilliant! I never thought of that but it sounds like a most promising approach.

But as I say, it's been a long time; maybe it's time to revisit Joyce. If a couple of other people here said they want to read him, I'll commit to it. We could come here from time to time and share our befuddlement. I honestly think I'd get more out of a Joycean discussion here than from the acknowledged experts. And it'd give us a chance to share something kinda special with Val. Any takers?

Valerie being interviewed on TV -
Oprah: In addition to being a beautiful porn model, do you do any other interesting things?
Val: At the moment I'm leading a salon on James Joyce's Ulysses. And I fall out of trees.

Inglari! Where have you been, man? Glad you're here.

- L

[greycat]

inglari, sorry but it sounds like it's from a very erudite book about buddhism. by a protestant who may teach at a seminary. assuredly not meant as a put down, that's really not my attitude about things, just reads as being ABOUT. not IS. but I'm always willing to be wrong. -gc

[matchless]

Matchless, you could read the Tao of Pooh, which explains it all in a VERY entertaining way. Also, here's a very simple metaphor:

Consider each being to be a block. Consumerism would tell us that to be happy, we need to add things to this block. Then we will be nice, shaped like David, etc. Buddhism would tell us that inside each block is a perfect sphere of crystilline beauty. We need to carve away all the trappings of this world (likes/dislikes, expectations, ego, etc) and then, lo!, we find the prize. Taoism, however, would say: "sweet, a block! You're good to go!"
I have so many books waiting to be read. Next week all the TV shows will have finale-ed and maybe then I can give it a try. That was one thing I thought I would miss being overseas, my favourite shows, but it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought; however, I did end up getting hooked on West Wing.

I think I tend to be a realist. It's a block. I may not want to add anything to it, but may I add it to my collection of stuff ... ? BTW, although I have never read any James Joyce I've always been curious about him. Then there is the memory of a woman I knew ... rather than go into details, I'll just say she was remarkable and inspired me in many ways. She also wrote poetry and wanted to use the name Finnegan as a nom de plume.

I also happened to catch an interview with the Irish poet and Nobel Laureate Seamus Heaney on the BBC World Service programme The Word. You can listen online here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/the_word.shtml). At 16 minutes into the interview, he talks about language and refers to Joyce's feelings on the difference between Irish and English. Thought you all might enjoy it, if you didn't come across it already, that is. [I don't know how long the link will have that interview on it but there is an archive link on the page, too.

[inglari]

Matchless, you could read the Tao of Pooh, which explains it all in a VERY entertaining way. Please, someone more learned than me on this, chime in!

Yes, Tao of Pooh by Benjamin Hoff is quite good. His follow-up, Te of Piglet, is not as good. I will not belabour the business of defining "good" at this moment. I am afraid that AA Milne (author of The House at Pooh Corner, Winnie the Pooh, When we were very Young, Now we are Six: his best known works; he also wrote plays and "adult" fiction, although if you read the four I have just named, you will see they are really geared to an adult audience, namely, to Milne's wife, for whom they were written) is not recognized sufficiently for his literary and philosophical genius. Hoff's use of Milne's work, however, is tremendously insightful, and, as Valerie notes, VERY entertaining. Of course, you'll want to go back and read (or, lucky you, read for the first time) Milne's "juvie" lit masterpieces. Incidentally, from an art standpoint, Hoff thankfully maintains the illustrations by Ernest Shepherd. Although Disney Corporation now owns the rights to them, these pen-and-ink drawings shame the Disney animated characters in their delicacy and feeling. Parenthetically, Christopher Robin Milne, who is fictionalized in the Pooh stories, but was the real-life son of AA Milne, was my dentist: he is a very staid fellow, not keen on Pooh-iania. If you read Latin, or want to learn Latin and find Pooh-iania charming, acquire a copy of Winnie Ille Pu -- a Latin translation by Alexander Lenard, or Brian Staples' Winnie Ille Pu Semper Ludet -- The House at Pooh Corner (although Staples, inexplicably, has given the title as "Winnie the Pooh always Plays"). Fun!

[KaraZorEl]

Hi, Val! Just wanted to pop by and say what a super-sweetie you are! <3

[abbyfanuk]

And for something really unusual, why not try reading The Mao of Pooh (http://www.voiceoftheturtle.org/mao/index.php)? Improving tales for young Communists... ;)

[inglari]

inglari, sorry but it sounds like it's from a very erudite book about buddhism. by a protestant who may teach at a seminary. assuredly not meant as a put down, that's really not my attitude about things, just reads as being ABOUT. not IS. but I'm always willing to be wrong. -gc

Bingo.

The explanation can be careful, should be careful -- but man, when I sit, do I have a lot of mental shit to wade through. It's better to be clear. I love the story about the disciple of the Buddha who gained enlightenment simply from the Buddha holding up a flower. It's not where I am, sadly, although I could hope to be there.

DT Suzuki never really grabbed me. Shunryu is my man. But there again, it's somewhat the intellectual reaching out to the intellectual.

I recently asked my wife whether I she was happy with the way I am and our relationship, and she replied "You are the best [Inglari] that you can be." But I know she wishes at times I was less, um, erudite. I cook, garden, and hike to compensate, but I've chosen a career that reinforces my peculiar illness.

Being willing to be wrong is an exceptional trait, much to be desired: if desire is the right word.

Best wishes,

I

[inglari]

But as I say, it's been a long time; maybe it's time to revisit Joyce. If a couple of other people here said they want to read him, I'll commit to it. We could come here from time to time and share our befuddlement. I honestly think I'd get more out of a Joycean discussion here than from the acknowledged experts. And it'd give us a chance to share something kinda special with Val. Any takers?

Inglari! Where have you been, man? Glad you're here.

- L

Where have I been? Not here. Ask Grey Cat: lost in my mind. But so was Joyce.

I'm in for a discussion of Joyce, but I'll be up-front with you: my reason is not a pure one. I was once described by a friend(improperly, I am sure, but with good intent) as the "king of Tolkien scholars" -- which was qualified by a reference to my local area, thankfully -- I would not want to go head-to-head with some of the recently-published authorities on the subject. But I am a great Tolkien fan -- perhaps another time I will explain how Tolkien saved my life.

Oh, some pumpkin soup, Mz Val? Excellent! I know cookies might be more appreciated by the younger folks, but I really need more fibre in my diet, and this is exquisite. Is that cumin, or coriander? Delicious.

As I was saying, Tolkien is my man, but in popular readers' polls -- popular, mind you, not critical -- Tolkien almost always comes up, except among the Welsh, who for some reason best known to themselves favor the critics choice, Joyce. So there is this play between Tolkien, the popular choice (pace the Cymry) and Joyce, the "erudite" choice (to borrow GC's term). I never liked Joyce when I read his stuff, yes, lo these three decades past. Or, no, that is too strong -- I enjoyed finding things like the connection between "The Magical Mystery Tour" by the Beatles (the song) and Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man. But that is the nature of Joyce -- he is a name-dropper, while Professor Tolkien was a name-maker. This is discussed (in more politic terms and at some length) by Tom Shippey, in his excellent study JRR Tolkien: Author of the Century.

Mr matchless, for shame. Watching television when you could be doing something productive, like reading or writing posts on aw.com! Hie thee to a library, sirrah!

But I don't like the idea of simply dismissing Joyce. I read Ulysses when I was about sixteen -- similar circumstances to some others who have posted here: youthful folly -- a golden haired woman, daughter of a cardiac surgeon, drove an eggshell Mercedes; I learned that she read and claimed to enjoy Sinclair Lewis and Joyce -- and Proust, Good God! So of course all these must be read. Ulysses, then, was a kind of marathon struggle: I ended disliking it cordially, and her as well. And she never did like my snickerdoodles, though I made them for her devotedly every year on her birthday.

Mz Val, I'll see you get the receipt, it's a good one out of the Joy of Cooking.

So, here, right in front of me -- can you see it? Is Ulysses -- hardcover, still with it's dust-paper, 'though it's a 1946 printing -- The Modern Library "with a foreword by Morris L. Ernst and The Decision of the United States District Court rendered by Judge John M. Woolsey". Can't say "no" to that, now can you? So, here goes. I'll read it you will. I guess I can't close my eyes while I do it, can I?

[inglari]

And for something really unusual, why not try reading The Mao of Pooh (http://www.voiceoftheturtle.org/mao/index.php)? Improving tales for young Communists... ;)

What a disappointment, I got an error message. Is this above board?

[inglari]

Matchless: Can someone tell me about Taoism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao) in such an entertaining and enlightening way?

If they asks; if they asks nicely.

Valerie:

inglari, woah. That was awesome. I know i know, literature is not the answer, but words *do* help me understand it, even if it's stuff I had read long ago. I need to put up poster and stuff about "don't get carried away by attachments" and "no expectations!" etc because I forget so often...and now the great Religion Prof himself has posted a gift for all to share that actually supports what I wrote! <hug for the prof>

:o

Thank you for your kind words -- I gave precedence to Grey Cat on the principle of rising before grey hairs (although I have quite a few myself!) and because I would not want it to be thought that my first interest is in ego: his comments were clear and valuable.

"Great Religion Prof!" Hm! "Erudition!" Hm! A Jedi craves not these things. The idea of a poster is not a bad one, and I'll share my experience of that sort of thing -- soon it becomes wallpaper, but worse wallpaper could be imagined. I find little index cards cunningly moved about work -- or better, have some willing accomplice place them in unexpected spots. "Cato! This is not the tiiiime!" Enough film references!

I studied with a guitarist who placed great emphasis on the role of



shock
in cultivating awareness; but it is hard to provide shocks to oneself. A good way to create a state of awareness is to do new things. For example, I joined aw.com and found you all (pats kids shoulders as they file through the room with their bowls of pumpkin soup and distressed faces -- "No cookies today, Mz Val?"), and now I have to rethink a lot of what I do.

Like reading Joyce!

[Philos]

"Cato! This is not the tiiiime!"

At last! A reference I understand. Would you like to know what Bert Kwok is doing now? You'd never guess!

[Leprechaun]

Please, someone more learned than me on this, chime in! I don't qualify there, but on the subject of the "10,000 Paths", my old swami once told me, "There are many paths, Leprechaun. You have chosen the psychopath."

- L

[doinel]

At last! A reference I understand. Would you like to know what Bert Kwok is doing now? You'd never guess! Do you mean Bert Kwouk the majordomus of Peter Sellers alias Jacques Clouseau? Is he still alive?

doinel

[abbyfanuk]

My guess is, either they're doing a Tenko reunion or he's been roped into playing Token Oriental Guy in some really insipid, past-its-sell-by-date sitcom.

[matchless]

Mr matchless, for shame. Watching television when you could be doing something productive, like reading or writing posts on aw.com! Hie thee to a library, sirrah!
In my defense, I was listening to the radio while working ... in case you didn't know I drive a truck nights and many NPR radio stations broadcast the BBC World Service overnight. There was a time when I could hear a half hour show by the late, great John Peel <3 I have his book/memoir which was co-written by his wife Sheila sitting on my shelf waiting to be read, but based on the segments they read on "Off The Shelf" I'm afraid it might make me too emotional. His death meant to death of a dream I always had to one day visit England, turn on BBC Radio and hear his voice for an entire show! I still have the CDs from the one time he brought his show overseas Peel Out In the States (http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/news/04-10/26.shtml):
In America, of course, he is best known for his "Peel Sessions," live studio performances that bands recorded for him, a tradition that began due to BBC regulations on how much of a given show could consist of just playing records. Over his 40 years in radio, Peel amassed an enormous catalog of these sessions featuring both superstars and obscure bands; The Fall, favorites of his, recorded two dozen of them, with the last one just two months ago. An early-90s attempt to directly bring the man to American shores-- a series of pre-recorded programs called Peel Out in the States-- lasted only about 25 episodes.

inglari: was this comment directed at me, too? ;)
Enough film references!
Would you like to know what Bert Kwok is doing now? You'd never guess!
Philos, zees is not the ze or ze place!!! ... I mean :o um yes, please ... I would like to know :)

[calliope]

Dear RT: according to Buddhism as I understand it, when you die, "you" cannot cease to be, because it never was. One of the basic teachings of Buddhism is "anatman": no self. The idea of the "self" is an illusion created by a confluence of experiences and an experiencer: the body, sensation, perception, "karmic dispositions" ...... and consciousness. At death, these typically disperse, but they continue so long as one or another of them exist to join: thus it is possible to be "reincarnated", but it is not, properly, a reincarnation or new embodiment of a continuously existing self (as taught in Hinduism and Jaina, for example), but a new coalescence of old material. An analogy might be a seasonal pond: it dries up in Summer, but is filled again in spring. In a sense, it is "the same pond"; in another, it is just more water in the same place.

As Val indicates, nothing is sure save death, but, if one understands it properly (according to Buddhism), death is nothing to fear, indeed death is itself a sort of illusion.


The general idea seems very close to the notion of a collective unconscious, and that we are all multiple personalities, with our psyches, or parts of our psyches, being composed of fragments that somehow resonate across time with other psyches. As I understand it, everything that has existed, still exists, but it's just at a different point in space-time, so when people are regressed back to a time before they were born, and appear to retrieve memories of some other person, perhaps that may indeed be precisely what is happening, and they are being unconsciously moulded in some way, in the present, by resonance with multiple influences from the past. In other words, if some form of resonance does take place between our present selves, and the influences in the past, then you can't help seeing that as a means of communication, rather like electromagnetic waves, that might eventually allow our minds not just to imagine roaming in time, but genuinely to do so, which would indeed make death a sort of illusion, or what other religions might call a sort of resurrection.

[inglari]

No, man, dig: it's ALL an illusion.

And, Calliope, I will get to that other matter -- I have not forgotten.

[blissed]

Well all our plans travel in a straight line but when we put them into practice we have to navigate reality and I think most people who've achieved something are Taoist without realising it, by being positive and creative with life, rather than being destructive.

3251

[alleyes1]

Hi Valerie,

I was just wondering if you could shed a little light on something I've had a question about for a long time. First, when I first started taking computer science cources in the 1978-80 period, there were plenty of women taking the courses. Then, later, I worked for the government (U.S.) and they had many women in programmer positions.

It seems that the women in that time(1978-1980), for some reason, didn't make computer science their career and I was wondering why?

Also, I was wondering, why you arean't a programmer at AW. With a computer science degree, you certainly have the understanding to program what they are doing with the web site.

Thanks,
Alleyes:)

[valerie]

Woah.

I had first aid training all day today...This is the best gift I could have gotten when I got back: a thread full of wonderful posts, discussing some of my favourite topics - Buddhism, death/life as an illusion, Joyce, even women in computing! And I'm glad everyone liked the soup! Yes, it was both coriander and cumin. Home grown pumpkin, too!

My apologies for responding to topics instead of to people, as I wasn't addressed, though it is "my" thread (as if I could own it or even shepherd it) so I feel i should reply if only to validate so VD doesn't move anything :eek:

life as illusion I went to a party on Easter and the hosts are some fantastically plant-friendly people, and they also are into drugs, which I don't really do any more. However, I had a brownie, and went on a trip, and Hostess was telling us about an experience she had, an out-of-body one, not where she floated around and could read the book you were reading in the far room, but as I gathered stepped above her body...and then I got to thinking. This is still a lose framework and I'd highly value input to similar (or vastly different) ideas. You know how when you play certain computer games, your charater is always in the center of the screen, and the walls of the maze around you move when you press the arrows, but there's the illusion that you are moving the character instead? My marijuana'd brain took something like this

wW only really see straight ahead, and I happen to be synasthetic so that all of my senses come through either sound or vision and in the end sound comes through vision anyway, so for me it's all just visual, and I only ever 'see' forward. Suppose I was in a room staring at a screen wide enough to be my whole field of vision. Hostess got me thinking of simply standing up and seeing over the top of that screen, and looking at all the other cubicles laid out in the world, with all the people in their little rooms, experiencing life through their screens. Sounds sorta like the Matrix, but is different in that me sitting watching the screen is not human form.

THis is a plausible reality for me, and couldn't really be DISproven. So why, then, are we all staring at these screens? To learn lessons. To get over the humps of wanting to scratch the itch, the humps of wanting to get drunk or be mean to my brother or leave the dishes for tomorrow, the hump of craving money, the hump of being homesick instead of enjoying Australia here and now. Getting over a hump means bliss, the Taoist state, for that particular drama. Getting over The Big Hump means enlightenment, being in eternal bliss, heaven on Earth, etc. Sounds great! Sorry if this was quite lengthy and a bit too 'fuzzy and esoteric' It was a very novel concept when it appeared in my brain.

women in computing hey there alleyes, missed you... there's a huge lack of women in that field eh...i got out too, didn't even have a computer in my dorm room the last several months of college. Computers were sucking my soul. I think it's like math and other hard sciences. Not seen as cool. And lots of the boys involved at my school were unattractive, had anti-social characteristics, turned every conversation into something to do with themselves (whoops, sounds like me, my hubris!), and didn't shower enough (sounds like me again). Some of them were pretty fucking awesome of course, and I shagged most of those boys. heh. but geekdom is too intense for chicks. Girls want CUTE guys checking them out, you know? Sorry I have no more indepth response more specific to computers.

Joyce how cool would a discussion on it be? If anyone has read it recently enough to remember it, or wants to participate, by all means, join in the discussion! I'm at the Newspaper Office scene now, in case anyone else is ready to start discussing stuff prior to that. Anyone willing to give the 2-sentence synopsis of the book for interested lurkers?

Buddhism I think it's interesting the distinctions between soto zen b'ism and other types. I've studied mainly the writings of thich nhat hanh (very accessible for the layperson!! and for the christian, there's living Buddha, living Christ) and a random hodgepodge of ideas and people, and the convent where i half-understood the japanese. What have you (greycat, inglari, others) learned from the types you've studied? What can a non-buddhist take from buddhism, like, how to make meditation attractive, etc?

Taoism Blissed are you taoist? you sly dog, I should have guessed! I find it fascinating, since it's such a liberated mindset, where as buddhism is more liberating. i think. What would you say the connection is between creation/creativity and taoism?

Calliope, i like the way you think. Here's something related that often trips me out when I eat: the orange you eat, that specific orange with it's specific dimples, is the one in your paws because of the man at the grocers who put it out, the lady who took the box of oranges out of the trunk and did or didn't bruise them, the trunk driver, the guy who tended the orchard and picked that orange, the sun, the wind, the rain, each drop, the mother of the truck driver, the person who made lunch for the trunk driver, and so on. All to get that specific orange with its specific characteristics...the whole Universe is in that orange, including yourself! You're already a part of the orange you are eating! Heh. Now to give thanks to each bit that helped, with each chew of each bite...

Ok, sorry for going on and on. My <3 to you...have some more soup and bread I just baked! and yes i'd love that recipe... now go run along and play!

[valerie]

Hi Karazorel! WHat do you think of this super-deep looky stuff over here??

Do you mean Bert Kwouk the majordomus of Peter Sellers alias Jacques Clouseau? Is he still alive?

Ok, kids, who is this? I don't watch movies or TV or listen to the radio, or read 'popular' fiction so I miss every refernce made on these forums. Please tell me about this! Is it funny? I like funny things and will watch funny movies...

[TowelBoy]

Dear Valerie,

Ok, kids, who is this? I don't watch movies or TV or listen to the radio, or read 'popular' fiction
so I miss every refernce made on these forums. Please tell me about this! Is it funny?
I like funny things and will watch funny movies...

For the Pink Panther movie series ... Please Look Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Panther)

For biography of Bert Kwouk ... Please Look Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burt_Kwouk)

For biography of Peter Sellers ... Please Look Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Sellers)

All before your birth ... I think ... :o
:)
TowelBoy

[greycat]

wow, fell asleep face-on-keyboard, apprently the reply partly in place unsent. (it had been a LONG day involving subways, busses, airplanes, lost cars at airport, drives, then very angry pets; oh well...). certainly recall that it started out, hello, inglari, glad to meet you! and being rather impressed at the fizzy thoughts of this thread in past 24 hours or so. Val, Val, what hath thou wrought? surely these particular nuts would not be rubbing together so more-or-less creatively without you aligning the stars for us. well, bye for now. -gc

[valerie]

Greycat. Let me know more, when you've rested up. Sounds like an adventurous day for you.

TB, thanks for the info...I've def heard of the Pink Panther series! i'll check out more

[greycat]

hi! well nothing about said day so different from thousands and thousands of other people's days - get up, go to conference, hear smart things, ride busses, see Lake Michigan (not the natural habiat of greycats), grab bags, take two subways to airport, wait, wait, then wait, then all pile into plane best loaded somewhat less, but nevermind, it flies, this time, see one of worst movies ever recorded by humans, eventually get where going, mrs cat arrives from other city after similar day, the cats believe they somehow reached this great-home-of-airplanes using catmobile, but all of many elevators look oddly alike and the cats aren't thinking at peak efficiency anyway (please, no cracks, dont kick a cat when down), eventually come out wrong elevator yeah verily unto the roof, above which there are few cars, catmobile emerges. cats drive, cats arrive cathouse (no lets not go there either), various cats who deign to live with cat-people vent their anger at being by selves for two days, then snarf proffered airline turkey and become less negative about the whole thing, all then decide to sleep (SOON), gc typing on laptop placed on bed, wakes up hours later with left half of keyboard embossed on face. offers said alleged humor to friends in oz, pauses (at this point story has overtaken reality), notes bogglingly interesting thread of last 24 hours or so, stands in awe (strictly speaking lies prone in awe on bed), deciding discretion is better part of valor, retires. gc has left the building, to return refreshed soon (in meantime earning his pittance from old Ebeneezer's cousin, government). -gc