Disgruntled

[TowelBoy]

I am only posting this message to prevent "feature creep"

Alleyes1 - I hope you don't mind me adding this post to your thread ... :)

A number of rude and intolerant members have posted personal abuse and attacks on my " Post History "
Perhaps someone with a lot of spare time could examine theirs ?
Apparently their opinions are the only " Mature " ones of any value.
The thoughts of these generous people can be examined in this thread ... More Girl-Boy Shoots? (http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5024)

They may choose to take time out from their " Clique of self congratulation " -
To read someone else's stated position on GB Shoots.
The following Quotes are taken from this thread ... New Girl-Guy shoot coming - Dominique & Olivier (http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2982)

Quote Dated 7 April 2005


Not only is it not what the site's about, I don't like shooting them,
so you're in the wrong place if that's what you're after.
Also, this site is not about diversity, it's about a very specifc niche of a genre.
I gotta say I am confused how you made that mistake...?

Quote Dated 8 April 2005


I tried it a few times, we put those shoots on the site. I don't like them.

I wonder whether they will show so little respect for Abby Winters herself ?
Probably not.
I thought Abby may have re-intervened in this GB debate ... but she is most likely bored by it.
Then again that is just my " valueless " opinion.

TowelBoy

[Vid Dude]

I moved your post to a new thread because it was quite a long way off-topic.

[TowelBoy]

I moved your post to a new thread because it was quite a long way off-topic.

Well OK ... Except I thought the GB Debate was related to a thread about " Feature Creep ".

Not sure about your choice of Title for this thread though.

As you originally removed the " offensive " images it was a pity you did not explain -
The sarcastic nature of the surrounding text.
May have stopped people commenting who did not see the Photos.
I held off on this for some time ... but your silence was deafening.

I am now returning to my room again.
:)
TowelBoy

[Vid Dude]

It is a built-in privilege of being All Powerful Controller that I do not have to explain myself to you or anyone if I deem it unnecessary.

[stoneyyy]

It is a built-in privilege of being All Powerful Controller that I do not have to explain myself to you or anyone if I deem it unnecessary.

Who is this vid dude charactor

[artlover]

He is the Grantor of Gruntlement, of course. ;)

[alleyes1]

Hi all,
I'll admit this is the first time I've seen this thread. I can't spend time looking at it as I should right now, so I'll just say I'll read it over the weekend and while my opine is no more than "Dust in the Wind" (who sang that song?) I'll see what it looks like over the weekend.

Peace and Love,
Alleyes <3

[dustysky]

Hi all,
I'll admit this is the first time I've seen this thread. I can't spend time looking at it as I should right now, so I'll just say I'll read it over the weekend and while my opine is no more than "Dust in the Wind" (who sang that song?) I'll see what it looks like over the weekend.

Peace and Love,
Alleyes <3

As to the song, it was done by a group called 'Kansas'

[arsby]

Boy, talk about off-topic.
Towelboy makes a very provocative point and there are several responses, none of which speak to Towelboy's points.
Not even this one.

[alleyes1]

TowelBoy,
When I first read this thread I was confused because of your first sentance to me and then I didn't realize that Vid Dude had moved your post. Please don't get frustrated too quickly, and I'll try to answer this post by Tuesday. Since you quoted me, I want to make sure that the words that I respond with is truly what i intend.

Stay cool,
Alleyes :)

[TowelBoy]

Further Disgruntlement -

The following Quotes are from the " Jemma breaks her silence... (http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4863) " Model speaks thread -

10 March 2006


Can the Jemma/Towelboy/Stoneyyy mutual appreciation society break it up a bit?
You guys dominate this thread to the point of exclusivity, and I'd like you to cut back a bit, please,
and give other people a chance to contribute here.

10 March 2006


I'm confused ... Which thread am I allowed to speak to Jemma in ?
This is her Models Speak thread ... I thought we were keeping it out of Abby Winters Discussion ?
How are other Members stopped from posting ?
Last night there seemed to be very few members on the forum -
And Jemma was here live whilst Stoneyyy and myself were on.
Both he and I posted in a variety of threads ... not just here.
Jemma also posted elsewhere.
Isn't it up to the Model whether she answers or ignores posts, or chooses not to post ?
Which Models have complained about me posting to them ?
I believe I get a very positive response from most of the Models ?
There are members complaining about us speaking to each other ?
Don't they like others to enjoy themselves ?
Of course we are not discussing Anal Secretions and Menstruation here -
So we are not " Mature ".
Here I was thinking I was contributing to the Site ?
Another mistake I have made.

10 March 2006


Towelboy, don't overreact or second-guess me. I am asking you, and everyone,
to not have ongoing long one-on-oneconversations with a model. It discourages others from joining in,
to the boards as a whole, not only to the particular thread.

Everywhere else you can post as much as you like, just as you have been.
But when it comes to conversing with the models, ease up a bit, please.

Which leads to my next post -

TowelBoy

[TowelBoy]

The following Quotes are from the " I think some of you girls on here like me (http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5088) " thread

10 March 2006


I hearby relinquish my personal comments to Gabrielle.
:(
But it has to be done. I have noticed it as well in other posters!
;)
RT...

10 March 2006


Is it just me, or have certain forum members recently been engaging in popularity battles, duels, and other
like-minded pissing matches, to try and get the models to mention their names on video & on the boards?

10 March 2006


Diablo, I have the same feeling.
There are some members showing a kind of courtship behaviour.
It's sometimes funny to observe, but I've already had other members complaining about that.
I think we need to get a bit more restrictive in this, though I'm actually not sure how to do it.

10 March 2006


I think the courtship behaviour tendency is also possibly contributing to useless, excessive posting in some threads,
namely the models' own threads. It may be fun at first, but once people start seeing it as competition...
it's suddenly an arms race with no limits.

Do any of the models perceive this as a problem?

10 March 2006


It may help more if the "courting posters" could interact more with the membership
and not focus entirely on a response from models.

10 March 2006


*Feels a photon torpedo being loaded...*

17 March 2006


*suddenly pops in, looks confused, spots rt, pets him encouragingly and pops out again*

17 March 2006


Gabrielle, jumped out as I had to check the on-line weather, for this morning. Shite. But getting warmer!

Hypocrisy ?

TowelBoy

[TowelBoy]

On the other hand the lovely Paula posted these quotes -

In the " I think some of you girls on here like me (http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5088) " thread -

13 March 2006


would the rules in place apply also for the models or just for members? i had no idea that "chatting"
wasnt what people wanted on the forums..... ive been having a jolly time "chatting".....
the forums have really become a fun place to hang out..... i wouldnt use a chatroom though, i like the environment
that we have now..... as for the courtship thing, once you add models on the forums, i would expect things of this sort,
it's just like telling a bunch of boys in a boys school that they cant get excited when girls join the school.....
i think the nature has so far been harmless.

13 March 2006


no lee dont apologise, im just surprised at the amount that some people complain,
it seems so trivial to me..... i wish people could just enjoy and not get caught up
in the small silly things. *shrugs* ah well :D

If only certain members shared a little of Paula's wisdom in this matter ?

TowelBoy

[arsby]

You haven't been around for awhile so you probably haven't heard about the moratorium on sarcasm. :)

Seriously, Towelboy, I think you're obsessing on this.
When the moderator of discussion boards slaps your hand, the proper response is to shake your head and change the topic to something less contentious. These are discussion boards at a porn site, fergoshsakes. Not important enough to get you so upset.

Why don't you forget about this, look at a few pretty naked girls, and then come back to tell us your opinions about Art vs Porn or your opinions on masturbation or asking models questions or any of the other various discussions going on here.

[TowelBoy]

I have never asked to meet a Model ... and never would.
I have never asked a Model where she lives ... and never would.
I have never asked a Model for a " Date " ... and never would.
I have never asked a Model to reveal her true name ... and never would.
I have never asked a Model to mention my name in a Video ... and never would.
I only make follow up posts to Models who reply to my initial post in their threads.
I do not seek to control what other members post in the AW Forum.
I rarely comment on other members posts ... and usually only if they are offensive -
Either to the Models or in the content of the post.
In real life I do not seek advantage over women -
So I find it very offensive to be accused of such here.
For the record I live 2000 KM from Melbourne ... and will not be making any " special visits ".

Perhaps someone else can determine why this issue surfaced in the first place ?
And why Randomthoughts and Diablo pushed it in Leegracie1972's thread (http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5088) ?

TowelBoy

[TowelBoy]

These are discussion boards at a porn site, fergoshsakes. Not important enough to get you so upset.

Arsby - That is exactly what I thought and hoped they would be.
So why the personal attacks ?


Why don't you forget about this, look at a few pretty naked girls, and then come back to tell us your opinions about Art vs Porn or your opinions on masturbation or asking models questions or any of the other various discussions going on here.

That is what I thought I was doing here at AW ... I have no interest in forum politics ... unlike others.
Arsby thank you for your input.

TowelBoy

[arsby]

These are discussion boards at a porn site, fergoshsakes. Not important enough to get you so upset.

So why the personal attacks?

When someone personally attacks me -- yes it happens, there have been hotheads on the boards -- I remember that these are discussion boards at a porn site and I back off. No reason to get all bent out of shape.

There were a couple of times I did take it personally. It was during the runup to the 2004 US elections, I was pretty passionate about my views (toward the left) and got attacked by someone hard to the right. I took umbrage and responded angrily.

The exchange wasn't satisfying for either of us, and we both got slapped down soundly by the very wise VidDude.

What I learned... best to point out that you think it's a personal attack and then forget about it. Remember that what you perceive to be a personal attack might not be meant as such - but it doesn't matter if you walk away from it.

[sorbet]

i think we have a lawyer here. arent they cute.

[matchless]

... The exchange wasn't satisfying for either of us, and we both got slapped down soundly by the very wise VidDude.

What I learned... best to point out that you think it's a personal attack and then forget about it. Remember that what you perceive to be a personal attack might not be meant as such - but it doesn't matter if you walk away from it.
Well, there was your problem arsby -- you discussed politics, one of two taboo topics here in the forums. It happens, it's hard not to considering the way the world is and you seem to be a passionate person so are prone to post opinions. I have done the same things; posted comments on the taboo topics and vented on a fellow poster. The former is relatively harmless but still not a good idea and the latter was not fun for anyone. The best thing to do would have been to respond sooner to what bothered me and then back off. I am still young in so many ways ... :rolleyes:

[Vid Dude]

Towelboy, the reason you were singled out by me was because you were doing it repeatedly. And it was confined to a couple of models. Perhaps I would've let that pass in the past, but people, that is members, models, and Staff, have been actively complaining about it to us - NOT about you specifically, but about how that kind of activity is off-putting, and difficult to feel like they're part of a community when there are these clique-like couples or trios keeping a lot of conversation centred around themselves and each other.

So we have implemented this new policy to keep that to a minimum.

Yes, of course you can talk to a model, and the model can respond. And if you then want to respond back, fine. If you ONLY do it a couple of times, within two or three posts, that's perfectly okay. But if you do it solidly for an hour, with twenty posts back and forth throughout that time, then that is NOT okay. The models were encouraging it, beause they had not been asked not to. The members were responding to posts addressed to them, which is not surprising. But now there is this policy, and when a Moderator asks someone to do something, they do NOT argue, they do NOT whine and accuse people of hypocrisy, on the boards publicly. They do what we ask of them.

These are our boards, our rules.

Next time you have a complaint about how we operate, contact us through email (http://www.abbywinters.com/main.php?page=feedback).

[stoneyyy]

well well well, I just been reading through this one
And i had not noticed that comment Vid had made back at Jemma's thread, that must prove i am not exclusive on that thread having only just seen it.

These are as you said disscussion boards and at that point in time Jemma (who's thread it is) Towelboy and myself were having a disscussion, we were not making it exclusive and anyone could of joined in, I am sure the 4 or 5 posts we each made in the time you were refering to were not too much were they, cos I could point to hundreds of threads here where only certain memebers have posted, does they get singled out too

Recently Gracie was pulled up for posting too much in her thread too

Vid you need to explain clearly what you want here, how many posts in each thread are we allowed to make, are we allowed to have an on going disscussion?

[ThePope]

Vid you need to explain clearly what you want here, how many posts in each thread are we allowed to make, are we allowed to have an on going disscussion?

I dunno stoneyyy, in Mr D's last post it seems clear to me what he/they want.

[stoneyyy]

I dunno stoneyyy, in Mr D's last post it seems clear to me what he/they want.
Thats about as clear as a thick fogg, i better not post in this thread then for another 24hrs according to that

Lets face it part of the attraction of this site is being able to communicate with the models, but when ya have a small chat of over 3 posts its against some new laws, seems redicualas to me, i think that would encourge people not to post

[ThePope]

i think that would encourge people not to post

If he/they go overboard with the rules regulations I agree, for now all I see is a request for some common sense to prevail and the forum not to be turned into a private chatroom. Wasn't intentional by those involved but that was the end result as they saw it.

[sorbet]

we need a system to keep track of member posts on a daily basis, if we are ever to conquer this potentially intolerable behavior we need to nip it in the bud as soon as there are any signs of potentially troublesome deviant behavior.

[stoneyyy]

On one hand they encourage chat with models, but to pull it up after 3 posts is not chat, they don't allow pm's with models, so the chat is all forced into the boards, now they complain and I agree with pope too many rules will see this dry up

[stoneyyy]

we need a system to keep track of member posts on a daily basis, if we are ever to conquer this potentially intolerable behavior we need to nip it in the bud as soon as there are any signs of potentially troublesome deviant behavior.

Are you understanding this at all

Oh dear i may of posted too many times in this thread already can someone tell me if I have broken this rule or not

[Vid Dude]

If you're going to be obtuse about it, then I'm not going to respond to any of your legitimate concerns that may be buried in amongst your idiocy.

[stoneyyy]

If you're going to be obtuse about it, then I'm not going to respond to any of your legitimate concerns that may be buried in amongst your idiocy.

But were you anyway

[ThePope]

I can't add anything else, hope you guys work it out.
synchronized swimming has just come up on the commonwealth games, I'm off to slit me throat...

[stoneyyy]

I am off to watch the Marathon tomorrow, I was at the opening it was awesome, tonight will be great at the pool

And cheer up Vid, the kiwi's have 2 gold already and are equal 5th with the Canadians

[foppa21]

This board will not be a deal breaker for me when it comes to deciding if I will renew my subscription or not, but I do think it adds to the feel/package - that is AW. I do peek in here on occasion to get an idea of what is going on at AW, and what people think about it.

I don't know anyone in this thread, or if someone has crossed any written or "common sense" rules. But the thread is here, so obviously there is some tension...

In general, there is not one civilized and functional forum/bulletin board on the planet that operates on the hippie notion of "free speech" - or an “anything goes” attitude. It just wouldn't work! You need rules and you need people (moderators) to point the way. If you want free speech, where anything goes - why not have some buddies over to your house for a few beers?

When at the AW board, why not just listen to the moderators when they are trying to nudge you in the right direction? Some people seem to take those "nudges" a bit too personal... Get over your ego! I'm sure the moderators here would prefer doing something more constructive, creative and/or fun than contemplating the option of bringing out the tire iron (not sure if they are used on this board...)

I'm an administrator of a board more than twice the size of this one (not of this sensitive nature though) and our "common sense" policy for "posting too much" is:

When the posts of other people get drowned/lost in an avalanche of your posts – you are probably posting too much. When other threads gets pushed down prematurely because you keep floating the ones where you think you have something "going on" - you are probably posting too much. When other people reading the thread perceive the posters being a club/clique - you are probably posting too much. When a moderator tells you (everyone) to move on - you (or your clique) ARE posting too much.

From what I can tell – the moderators here (I presume Vid Dude is one?) were picked for their angelic patience, because on any other board, nonsense attitude would quickly be resolved by pushing the "banished" button. It's quite clear that he (they?) is trying to make this place work for EVERYONE.

[stoneyyy]

Foppa. Vid Dude is ok, he seems like a really nice guy and these boards are only part of all the hardwork he has done, I take my hat off to the guy and if I seen him in a bar I would buy him a drink

Yes i do stir the pot a bit, this proberly comes from being active in forums that are extremly large, over all Vid and Lux do a gret job here, yes from time to time we have our little differences, but they are not personal and after another scotch they are gone

If you feel from reading this thread that we are all against mods etc then your very wrong, forums need to be moderated, this one could do with some more tools to help it but overall its not a bad one

[Luxman]

Great post Foppa!


This board will not be a deal breaker for me when it comes to deciding if I will renew my subscription or not, but I do think it adds to the feel/package...

That's what Abby and the mods want to provide: A bonus to the pictures section of the site.


When at the AW board, why not just listen to the moderators when they are trying to nudge you in the right direction? Some people seem to take those "nudges" a bit too personal...

I couldn't agree more. Pretty often people take the moderator's reactions as a personal attack. That's simply not the case.
I remember having "diplomatical trouble" with some members just because I deleted a post that wasn't how we want them.
The reaction was: "You have something against me!"
Hey guys, aren't we all adult people?


When the posts of other people get drowned/lost in an avalanche of your posts – you are probably posting too much. When other threads gets pushed down prematurely because you keep floating the ones where you think you have something "going on" - you are probably posting too much. When other people reading the thread perceive the posters being a club/clique - you are probably posting too much. When a moderator tells you (everyone) to move on - you (or your clique) ARE posting too much.

That's a great policy. I think we should adopt it to our forum rules.
It shows were's the borderline between a discussion and a 1-1 or 2-1 "club chat".
Chatting cliques who monopolise a thread, very often refrain other members from posting.
Also "club chats" start to annoy everybody after a short while.


...on any other board, nonsense attitude would quickly be resolved by pushing the "banished" button. It's quite clear that he (they?) is trying to make this place work for EVERYONE.

The goal is to make the boards an attractive place for everyone.
I can say that the ban button is rarely used. I'm not sure if it still works after such a long time, it's probably rusted. :)

Lxm
the other moderator

[Vid Dude]

We've only ever banned real serious troublemakers - those who use insulting language, or are obvious trolls.

I certainly wouldn't ban people just because they disagree with something we do, or because they are breaking a new and admittedly vaguely defined rule.

[matchless]

From what I can tell – the moderators here (I presume Vid Dude is one?) were picked for their angelic patience, because on any other board, nonsense attitude would quickly be resolved by pushing the "banished" button. It's quite clear that he (they?) is trying to make this place work for EVERYONE.Your post was really spot on, foppa (and I know I don't have to repeat what Luxman said, but I did -- what're you gonna do about it?) It's stuff like this that keeps me coming back to these forums and makes me wonder why some people leave and get so defensive about the mods doing what they are supposed to be doing. I do not know Vid Dude and Luxman personally but I have come to know them from my time spent here as a member of this site. They are both wonderful people and they both seem to spend too much time working but I have never heard them complain. Quite the opposite, they really seem to like it and to like the people here ... all of us, not just the naked ones ;)

I could expand on this and try to go into details about the kind of stuff I think these two are made of but I won't. Stick around long enough and you'll find out for yourself. Then there are the members. An interesting lot, all of them, with moods and feelings. Take TowelBoy, whose disgruntledness got this thread started; I've always liked his posts but he comes at things from a very different place than me. He started posting a while ago, then stopped (I won't link to the thread that gives you some insight into that.) Then he came back and it was nice again. Now this. I really hope it doesn't put him off forever but members come and go all the time. It happens. As long as Abby, Vid Dude and Team Abby are here, the forums will continue. Some members are more articulate than others, some say very much with very few words and then there are guys like me who use too many words and sometimes say TMI ... :rolleyes:

Amid all the hub-bub in this thread, there come these two posts which made me lol, then :) :

posted by ThePope:

I can't add anything else, hope you guys work it out.
synchronized swimming has just come up on the commonwealth games, I'm off to slit me throat...
posted by stoneyyy:

I am off to watch the Marathon tomorrow, I was at the opening it was awesome, tonight will be great at the pool
And cheer up Vid, the kiwi's have 2 gold already and are equal 5th with the Canadians
I'll tell you something about stoneyyy: I used to think he was a man from the stone age who thought all women should stay home and make babies (preferably, man child ...) I was wrong about that. From what I can tell, he's got a healthy sense of humour, big and bold and like most Aussies he enjoys taking the piss out of folks from time to time. Makes me "homesick" for my days teaching English with all those Aussies in Japan.

So out of respect and admiration for stoneyyy, and because I don't want to get even more carried away with this, I'll just re-post what he said again as the last word for this reply (smaller and indented so as not to take up too much more space):

Foppa. Vid Dude is ok, he seems like a really nice guy and these boards are only part of all the hardwork he has done, I take my hat off to the guy and if I seen him in a bar I would buy him a drink

Yes i do stir the pot a bit, this proberly comes from being active in forums that are extremly large, over all Vid and Lux do a gret job here, yes from time to time we have our little differences, but they are not personal and after another scotch they are gone

If you feel from reading this thread that we are all against mods etc then your very wrong, forums need to be moderated, this one could do with some more tools to help it but overall its not a bad one

[stoneyyy]

Damn matchless your catching my posts up in numbers

Thankyou for the compliment, its true i try and post most of the time with a sence of humour, unfortunatly not all will get it, but i never mean to offend anyone at anytime.

Now matchless what we need here is another one of your great scenes, with Vid and Lux, reading over this thread

[matchless]

Now matchless what we need here is another one of your great scenes, with Vid and Lux, reading over this thread
Actually ... what I had in mind was a photo essay, but I'm not prepared for it right now. I can see the whole thing, but it ain't a disgruntled kinda thing ... its for the "Dirty Old Man Stereotype" thread.

Give me a couple days, maybe I'll think of a scene, How's this for a title: TowelBoy stick's it to "The Men" ... you know, instead of The Man. :rolleyes: Ya, I know ... it's late here. And I just popped open me second Miller High Life. Maybe some TV will inspire/relax ... kill? me :D

[matchless]

Okay, I didn't watch any TV since I posted that reply above and I can't seem to get any sleep. No clouds, too sunny, mind too wired ...:rolleyes: ? so I had another inspiration to pitch in regards to the TowelBoy script idea: Beach Towel Bingo ... sort of a twist on the old Frankie and Annette movies, but with naked Abby Winters girls and one very eager assistant in charge of you-know-what ;)

If I can just get TowelBoy's permission, I'll give it a go. What do you say, TB? :) Are you ready for virtual stardom?

[TowelBoy]

G'day Matchless - Nice to be able to return to amusing matters.


... so I had another inspiration to pitch in regards to the TowelBoy script idea: Beach Towel Bingo ...
sort of a twist on the old Frankie and Annette movies, but with naked Abby Winters girls
and one very eager assistant in charge of you-know-what ;)

By " assistant in charge of you-know-what " ... I hope you meant " Towels ".
Don't want any more controversy ... :o


If I can just get TowelBoy's permission, I'll give it a go. What do you say, TB? :) Are you ready for virtual stardom?

Matchless - It is not my place to restrict your creative flow ... However, it may be for the best -
If " TowelBoy " fades into quiet obscurity ... To a place where he may post in Peace.
Free of Disgruntlement.
:)
TowelBoy

[TowelBoy]

If nothing else this thread finally seemed to allow a number of people -
To express their views which have been " bottled-up ".
Obviously this also applies to me.

:)
TowelBoy

[ham]

Thank You towelboy. I am one of the people you reffer too. Unfortunately my typing skills don't match my vocal skills. With a little time maybe I will gain skill. I don't post often but do occasionally try to participate much to my chagrin when I read the post the next day. Will have to drink more Scotch! :) p/s Finally learned the easy job of smileys!

[matchless]

G'day Matchless - Nice to be able to return to amusing matters.
You bet'cha!

By " assistant in charge of you-know-what " ... I hope you meant " Towels ".
Don't want any more controversy ...
What else would you assist with? Me, create controversy? :rolleyes: :confused: :D

Matchless - It is not my place to restrict your creative flow ... However, it may be for the best -
If " TowelBoy " fades into quiet obscurity ... To a place where he may post in Peace.
Free of Disgruntlement.

I'm not sure of this is permission or not. I think it is you saying you don't need fame, virtual or otherwise. Maybe this is just one of those script ideas that will languish in development hell forever ...

Oh well, I've got more up my sleeve ... and what I don't got now, maybe I'll get it some other day ;)

[oncall]

Damn matchless your catching my posts up in numbers

Since when is it a competition to get the most posts, seems that is some peoples intention

oncall

[Diablo]

Since when is it a competition to get the most posts, seems that is some peoples intention
Quality, not quantity! Isn't that what they always say?

[matchless]

Quality, not quantity! Isn't that what they always say?
It sure is ... so which side of that coin has my face ...:rolleyes: ?

I have my good post days, my bad post days, and then I sometimes feel I need to take a break ... or my computer does it for me :p

[alleyes1]

I certainly wouldn't ban people just because they disagree with something we do, or because they are breaking a new and admittedly vaguely defined rule.
I can attest to that. I'm certainly still here!!! ;)

Alleyes:)

[stoneyyy]

I can attest to that. I'm certainly still here!!! ;)

Alleyes:)

And so ya should be alleyes, i think Towelboy and myself can attest to that too