I'm curious about something

[scratchandsniff]

and it's never been discussed (or I've never read a thread about it) but I'm curious about how much models are paid (say for a T3). Are we allowed to know? I'm just interested in a general figure (ie $300, $1000, $3000 etc). Is there anyone who'd like to say?

[Melinda]

Sorry scratchandsniff, I know for a fact that is not something we can share on the boards, not even in a general sense... but rest assured Abby looks after her models well :)

<3 Luv Melinda <3

[marigold]

they dont pay me in money.....i do it for twelve wheels of swiss cheese, an albino rhinocerous, a bejewelled headress, a packet of sultanas and a moon pie.....
actually, im not being serious!! boom boom, etcetera.....but im not too sure whether we are allowed to say stuff like that on the forums?? perhaps an AW employee can clarify that for us??

[marigold]

aha, thanks for that melinda :)

[Melinda]

aha, thanks for that melinda :)

That's ok marigold, I almost wish now that they did pay us in all those things you mentioned, I haven't had an albino rhinocerous since I was little, haha :p

<3 Luv Melinda <3

[Tango270]

That's ok marigold, I almost wish now that they did pay us in all those things you mentioned, I haven't had an albino rhinocerous since I was little, haha :p

<3 Luv Melinda <3


I'd let you borrow mine, but it's Monday and I've just got the one to last until the weekend. Sorry hun. :(

[laktor]

.but im not too sure whether we are allowed to say stuff like that on the forums?? perhaps an AW employee can clarify that for us??

Well, I've known for a long time, from these boards, that this info isn't allowed to be talked about, BUT I'm quite surprised that Marigold wasn't sure about it. I mean, wouldn't the staff during the very first interview with a new model make it VERY clear that discussing money on the boards is a no-no? If they didn't, then a model could unwittingly say something they shouldn't.

[Melinda]

Well, I've known for a long time, from these boards, that this info isn't allowed to be talked about, BUT I'm quite surprised that Marigold wasn't sure about it. I mean, wouldn't the staff during the very first interview with a new model make it VERY clear that discussing money on the boards is a no-no? If they didn't, then a model could unwittingly say something they shouldn't.

Well not much was discussed about the boards at my first shoot, but when I joined up on the boards I received an email with details such as username and password and also a fairly detailed rundown of the 'rules' of the boards and what can/can not be discussed... BUT, I think we are all guilty of not reading things like this from time to time, I admit that I didn't... but models (even me) have unwittingly said something we shouldn't on here, that's where Mr Luxman comes in.... :)

<3 Luv Melinda <3

[Abby]

We don't make public specifically what models are paid, but we pay models more than pretty much all of our competition.

[swiftly]

they dont pay me in money.....i do it for twelve wheels of swiss cheese, an albino rhinocerous, a bejewelled headress, a packet of sultanas and a moon pie.....
actually, im not being serious!! boom boom, etcetera.....but im not too sure whether we are allowed to say stuff like that on the forums?? perhaps an AW employee can clarify that for us??

I did a quick value conversion to cold cash and am off to the doctor for a nip and tuck and a sex change I recon you're getting paid the equivalent of $350,000 a shoot. Maybe don't mention the rhino!

[sweatyfox]

It kinda shouldn't really matter to the members anyway as long as we know the models get treated well and get a fair deal. I know the money is important but I really hope that it isn't anywhere near the primary motivation for a majority of models for doing a T3 with another hot girl, which is a chance you don't get so easily outside of AW. I know some models have said it isn't easy to find likeminded girls and even if you think you have it's not easy to have the confidence to go up to them in a club etc. Here they are likely to be paired with a girl with a similar desire to explore her sexuality.

SF

[scratchandsniff]

I sort of can and sort of can't understand why prices can be stated here, but as it happened I came across a website just after I'd posted and they stated how much they paid so that answers my question.

[artlover]

Speaking of money, we haven't heard much of late about charities that AW donates too. I always found that to be interesting.

[jaycee]

I don't know what the models draw per shoot and I don't want to know.

I do know this though, it is enough that the models ask for more shoots and get upset sometime when they have met the quota that has been established, What ever that is.

There are benefits not stated in their contract, like they gain self confidence, learn more about their sexuality, have a network of people in the staff and other models they can call friends, and most of all, they do get paid for having FUN FUN.:)

Cheers JC

[wannadance]

you are such a total nut! how i wish you would put together some scenarios for g/g or im2.

i bet i'd be on the floor laughing...

see, this is what holiday does to you, esp. if you are in healthcare. healthcare will make you crazy and old before your time, ah tell, yew... (credit jerry garcia for the crazy line, i think. healthcare gives you amnesia for stuff, uh, something...)
(no, wait: could be CNS&Y: ...will make you crazy and old before your time. and the difference between you and me, i'm not saying right from wrong but i know how to cry, baby..) i think.

what we ALL need is rhinestone tiaras, dammit!

dancer

[Dekoda]

what we ALL need is rhinestone tiaras, dammit!

dancer

Sorry I couldn't fit the "R" on the end Dancer.

[MightySpork]

they dont pay me in money.....i do it for twelve wheels of swiss cheese, an albino rhinocerous, a bejewelled headress, a packet of sultanas and a moon pie.....

... and a paaaar-TRI-idge in a peaarrr treeeeeee ...

:D

[marigold]

have you heard the twisted sister version?? and a taaaaattooooo of ozzzzzzie!!!

[marigold]

btw laktor, they do make everything good and clear to us in first interviews.....i just forgotted is all :) i seem to be drunk on cheese and sleeping in late and not having to wipe old people's bottoms!!! wooo for holidays...

[MightySpork]

No, but that quote got me LOLing, so maybe I'll track it down in time for Christmas. :)

[laktor]

l :) i seem to be drunk on cheese and sleeping in late and not having to wipe old people's bottoms!!! ...

Sounds good. May I join you?:D

[wannadance]

dekoda, it is so lovely! now, see, that IS what we all need..

what a party that would be!!

thank you, thank you. it's beautiful and very loving of you to construct...

love,
dancer

[Dekoda]

dekoda, it is so lovely! now, see, that IS what we all need..

what a party that would be!!

thank you, thank you. it's beautiful and very loving of you to construct...

love,
dancer

You're welcome Dancer. I wanted to put DANCER in the middle, but the size of the rhinestones only allowed DANCE, so I went with that. I didn't know the size, so I hope it fits okay.;)

[PlughPlover]

I know of a certain industry in which a certain "publisher" threw a big and expensive party for all the "artists" in their stable. Trouble was, the "artists" got to comparing notes at the party and discovered some variety in what they were being paid -- which was supposed to be a secret. "If he's getting that much, how come I'm not? Aren't I good enough?" etc. This caused major trouble for the "publisher," and the result was, no more parties.

It's not really our business as long as the relationship isn't exploitive, and as the models are all adults, they're competent to determine that for themselves. If it were, though, I don't think we'd see them coming back again and again, and that's enough for me.

[peesoup]

I wouldn't get nekkid on the internet for any less than 3 jellybeans, a marble and a used bus ticket. And if they wanted
closeups of my mangina and my manboobs I'd really play hardball and demand 2 extra jellybeans and a kazoo.
I might be nasty but I'm not cheap........
pee x

[Giselle]

It kinda shouldn't really matter to the members anyway as long as we know the models get treated well and get a fair deal. I know the money is important but I really hope that it isn't anywhere near the primary motivation for a majority of models for doing a T3 with another hot girl, which is a chance you don't get so easily outside of AW. I know some models have said it isn't easy to find likeminded girls and even if you think you have it's not easy to have the confidence to go up to them in a club etc. Here they are likely to be paired with a girl with a similar desire to explore her sexuality.

SF

Well, to be honest I did AW to help fund my traveling (and to hang out with Toby too... Abby keeps her busy!) so I'd have to say that money was a big motivator for me.

I'm a super confident girl as it is and had certainly explored my sexuality with plenty of girls well before my first T3 so I was more drawn to the professionalism of the site and the generous pay per set.

Modeling for AW has helped me travel all over the place and have super amazing adventures, weee!

[Frans]

Speaking of money, we haven't heard much of late about charities that AW donates too. I always found that to be interesting.

Hmm.. yes... the donation log (http://www.abbywinters.com/main.php?page=wiki&id=DonateCharities) sorta stops at 'Wednesday 13th June' :) Keeping it up-to-date is yet more extra work though so I'll just hope the donations didn't all stop at that date :D

[Frans]

we pay models more than pretty much all of our competition.

Said competition has been known to complain about that btw. :D

Now if you view ALL the backstage shoots, you could get a rough idea of how much at least is payed for a tier3 shoot. Very colorfull money they have in Australia :)

[Simulacra]

I signed up for Abbywinters, what the hell, I don't usually pay porn websites... they seem so sleazy, exploitive, and intentionally degrading. Thought that the women here were more exploiting themselves and having some fun. Have no idea what "good" pay would be, but i would hope that the women have fun and have some control of how their images are used in the end. Not sure i will want to continue membership.

It does kinda seem that the women are being led to Tier 3 with a money trail. Obviously i have no real idea what "Abby" is like, i could only imagine different assumptions, more sincere or more exploitive or more with a selfish ulterior purpose ...have no idea, but she is kind of mysterious, you can understand that people will invent what type of person that they think is "Abby" . Maybe "Abby" wants to expose these women to girl-girl sex because she gets off on it, or maybe just because it is profitable for a website. There are male gay sites that claim that they are teaching straight college age guys to enjoy sex with other guys. The viewer can only guess... it is porn, porn usually tends to be exploitive.

Maybe if the women could have Tier3 with a female friend or a male friend, or one of each (at seperate times), then it would seem less potentially exploitive. And interesting.

[Melinda]

*opens mouth ready to say something....* Nah, I'm not touching this one... prolly a post Abby herself should address...

<3 Luv Melinda <3

[Frans]

Maybe if the women could have Tier3 with a female friend or a male friend, or one of each (at seperate times), then it would seem less potentially exploitive. And interesting.

skpping your other points for now (busy), there have been several shoots of real-life girlfriends; Tamara and Jennifer L comes to mind, as do the various Paula/Chloe B. shoots. ALL male/female shoots on the site are of a real-life couple.

So... did you find those shoots interesting at least ?? :D

[cleo]

I cant beleive you didnt touch this melinda!!! I'm outraged!! There is not a "money trail" to lure us innocent young girls into f*cking other women!! AW are very good at making sure you're completely comfortable with what you're doing. some people will stop at one shoot that isnt all that explicit (similar to my shoot) and if that's all they wanna do, then thats all they wanna do. of course you're going to get paid better in relation to the level of "work" you do in a shoot, but that's completely normal when it comes to any paid work (or at least it should be) Abby winters are completely profession and VERY VERY understanding. I doubt you will find a single model that will agree with you that they are in ANY WAY "exploititive". No-one is forced to do anything they're not comfortable. I could rant for hours now, but my lift is here. so I'm leaving.

[sweatyfox]

I cant beleive you didnt touch this melinda!!! I'm outraged!! There is not a "money trail" to lure us innocent young girls into f*cking other women!! AW are very good at making sure you're completely comfortable with what you're doing. some people will stop at one shoot that isnt all that explicit (similar to my shoot) and if that's all they wanna do, then thats all they wanna do. of course you're going to get paid better in relation to the level of "work" you do in a shoot, but that's completely normal when it comes to any paid work (or at least it should be) Abby winters are completely profession and VERY VERY understanding. I doubt you will find a single model that will agree with you that they are in ANY WAY "exploititive". No-one is forced to do anything they're not comfortable. I could rant for hours now, but my lift is here. so I'm leaving.

Great post Cleo, it makes me glad to hear that and it is what I expected. And I hope you know us members too only want to see models doing what they want to do. :)

SF

[sweatyfox]

Oh and Giselle, good on you for being honest but I do hope that it wasn't just cynical and that you did enjoy having sex with and were genuinely attracted to your female partners in the T3s. Because I think they were to you.

SF

[arsby]

...Obviously i have no real idea what "Abby" is like, i could only imagine different assumptions, more sincere or more exploitive or more with a selfish ulterior purpose ...have no idea, but she is kind of mysterious, you can understand that people will invent what type of person that they think is "Abby" . Maybe "Abby" wants to expose these women to girl-girl sex because she gets off on it, or maybe just because it is profitable for a website...

Hi, Simulacra. First of all, I love your nic. It's plural, indicating that you have many facets, all insubstantial. Fascinating.

I've been involved in the site since it was 6 months old and had maybe 20 models on site. I posted to the newsgroups for Abby and had a nice long-distance correspondence with her.

First of all, Abby is very real, very human, very caring. As the website has gotten so much bigger she's also very busy, thus we don't hear much from her. That and the fact that she has a minimalistic and sarcastic posting style I guess makes her seem mysterious.

If you think of her as a CEO, driven to succeed, with a clear vision of how the product should look and feel, and the management style to follow up on that, you'll understand her a little better. She demands a lot from the staff, but she's also very caring about the staff and models. Check model Sahara's first post (http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=170216&postcount=1) for an example. Showing care and respect for the models is part of the vision.

Abby has made it clear what her sexual orientation is, but I guarantee you that she doesn't emphasize girl/girl action because she gets off on it. She emphasizes it because the members get off on it and have said they want more of it, and it fits in with her vision.

[Frans]

I cant beleive you didnt touch this melinda!!! I'm outraged!!

Which is precisely why Melinda didn't want to touch it I think. No use it getting outraged about a single message.


I could rant for hours now, but my lift is here. so I'm leaving.

Good, no use to rant for hours. That energy is better spent on pretty much anything else :) Really, don't snap to bait so easily.. bad for your blood pressure :D Relaaaaaax...

7384

Now onto the more interesting questions; what did make go from 'just' an open-leg shoot up to a Double Intimate Moment shoot? Was the first shoot that comfy and nice? Did you plan/want to do a more explicit redux shoot (with a hoola-hoop perhaps?;))

Keep smiling Cleo and have fun in life!

[wannadance]

'Maybe "Abby" wants to expose these women to girl-girl sex because she gets off on it, or maybe just because it is profitable for a website. There are male gay sites that claim that they are teaching straight college age guys to enjoy sex with other guys. '


i gotta say it: this is one of the most hilarious things i have ever read on the web. no time or way to explain why, too busy laughing....

gasp, cough...ahem. irresistable giggling fit.

dancer

[cleo]

tehehe! Okay, So i got angry too quickly. I'm a hot-headed kinda girl. But everything that i've said is 100% true. I was REALLY unsure of what I wanted to do when I first went along to find out what this was about, I took my bf in case it was some dodgy sleazy thing that I wanted to get away from quick and I'd never done anything like this before. Every level of posing is explained and I chose Open leg because I wasnt sure how comfortable I was with masturbating etc in front of someone holding a camera. I was new to this sort of thing, and wasn't going to dive in head-first. (which they were 100% supportive and understanding of) after I did my shoot and thoroughly enjoyed it. I knew they were friendly and professional and were really respectful, I was willing to do more work but wasn't sure if they'd let me.

They called me, and explained some other things (IM's etc) and I already knew I was pretty interested in doing some GG stuff (purely for the pleasure of it) I had an opportunity to start looking through the site, loooking at IM's and see if it was something I was comfortable with. Because you're left alone in a room with just the camera, I think the IM's are a good way to become more comfortable with being that exposed on camera, without the addition of a camera-lady in the room.

Yes, DIM was daunting, and I didnt wanna rush ahead of melinda etc, but...I was just really comfortable. working on this stuff has made me so much more comfortable just being naked, and I was able to get changed etc in front of melinda and had no problems. I guess the gradual progression helps with your comfort level and luckily you're working with such a professional group of people, you feel no need to worry.

I feel in no way exploited, or coerced into doing anything that I dont want to. I like to make love to girls, I want to be able to do more of it. AW is giving me the opportunity to have amazing sexual encounters with other girls without all the "will she/wont she" awkwardness that happens in "real life". And I can watch it over and over again to relive the moment. Who wouldn't want to do that?

Of course having more girl-girl stuff IS profitable for the website, people get off on it, it's a fact. But the reason so many people enjoy the GG stuff on AW compared to other sites, is because there's a connection between the girls, It's real and They are enjoying themselves.

[PlughPlover]

From your description, Cleo, I get the feeling that becoming an AW model is almost a kind of therapy -- it helps women to become more comfortable with their bodies (and God knows most women, even gorgeous ones, are critical about their bodies!). Seems like a good thing to me!

(Mind you, AW girls aren't going to get much negative criticism...)

[sweatyfox]

They called me, and explained some other things (IM's etc) and I already knew I was pretty interested in doing some GG stuff (purely for the pleasure of it) I had an opportunity to start looking through the site, loooking at IM's and see if it was something I was comfortable with.

I like to make love to girls, I want to be able to do more of it. AW is giving me the opportunity to have amazing sexual encounters with other girls without all the "will she/wont she" awkwardness that happens in "real life". And I can watch it over and over again to relive the moment. Who wouldn't want to do that?

the reason so many people enjoy the GG stuff on AW compared to other sites, is because there's a connection between the girls, It's real and They are enjoying themselves.

Cleo, I thought your first post was really good, it wasn't over the top, you were standing up for yourself, Abby's methods and all the other models who do generally enjoy being part of this site. Your second post is even better in giving a more detailed explanation. You express yourself very well.

I know that you and others do care by the very fact that you come on and chat to us and we get to share your excitement at upcoming shoots and thoughts on other aspects of the site. :)

Having read the above I will now look forward greatly to your upcoming shoots and the time when you do get to do your debut g/g. :) Sure I get off on g/g but I don't just think about what it's like for myself as a member and I have said many a time that I would always want it to be a rewarding and satisfying experience for the model herself in a good environment. So it makes me very happy to hear that you get a lot out of it too including the chance to further your explorations and experiences.

SF

[Melinda]

I cant beleive you didnt touch this melinda!!! I'm outraged!!

I was a bit outraged too... but I thought the best person to reply to those comments were Abby herself since it was her integrity and motivations that were coming into question... I figure it's not quite the same having comments from us or members about how good we think Abby is or how we'd like to think we know Abby and she's not like that, but really, you gotta hear it straight from the horses mouth....

But well done anyway Cleo with your posts, love all your comments regarding this and couldn't agree more... :)... in no way have I felt exploited...

Haha, I think it's funny that you took your bf along too to the first interview, just like I did... I think it's good to have a second opinion and I wanted to know what my bf thought of this whole AW set up... basically if he didn't like the look of it then I wasn't going to do it... not because I need his permission, but because I trust and respect his opinion on these things... :)

<3 Luv Melinda <3

[katy]

I agree with Cleo on this one, there is NO way that any coercion is involved. I think the fact that models keep coming back for more GG shoots and reduxes supports this idea. Surely any models who'd felt coerced would've felt terrible after their shoots and not gone back for more.

Yes we get paid well and the money is nice. Regardless of that I wouldnt do anything that made me feel terrible. My self esteem and self worth are worth WAY more than I could ever be paid for work like this.

[cleo]

Melinda is right...it would be stronger coming from abby...however, If I were questioning the reason behind someones actions and THEY told me they were doing it the right way...I'm not sure how much i'd beleive them...i mean, of course they're going to defend themselves. The fact that the models are openly outraged by the implication that we were coerced or manipulated in anyway, shows that whatever abby may say about herself (and other staff at AW) is true. Coz...we'll we're eye-witness's to it...and very credible eye-witness's at that!

and...if what was being implied was true...we'd be the victims...so...we're very believable. there's no manipulation if no one feels manipulated.