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    Rethink Tags

    There is a section on the main page called "Random Tags". I see something there that looks interesting like say "Firm Breasts". I click on it and wait. Then up pops the "No Results" window.

    What NO models have firm breasts???

    I finally figured it out after tons of NO RESULTS on different tags. The normal mode on the main page seems to be SHOOTS. The tag search is only done for SHOOT tags matching the name I clicked on. Turns out Firm Breasts is a tag on Michaela's Video! She can't be the only one!! Can she?

    Tag searches need to include all classes of tags in the results.

    Spectacular Spud

    #2
    Originally posted by BigSpud View Post
    There is a section on the main page called "Random Tags". I see something there that looks interesting like say "Firm Breasts". I click on it and wait. Then up pops the "No Results" window.

    What NO models have firm breasts???

    I finally figured it out after tons of NO RESULTS on different tags. The normal mode on the main page seems to be SHOOTS. The tag search is only done for SHOOT tags matching the name I clicked on. Turns out Firm Breasts is a tag on Michaela's Video! She can't be the only one!! Can she?

    Tag searches need to include all classes of tags in the results.

    Spectacular Spud
    I remember reporting upon this and another manifestation where only tags with shoots included appear as options under search, an example being "backstage Chloe b".

    I do believe that these may very well be included in the programme of ongoing tag/site enhancements, the most recent concerning tags being the alphabetical listing of tags and the two tag widgets. The most recent generally and to some extent 'tagesque' being one I've only just spotted, the Debut date Filter.

    tom

    Comment


      #3
      The random-box does give tags that don't appear to have any items in them, filed a bug for that.

      Comment


        #4
        I am beginning to think many of the tags are pretty useless, except those used to indicate the more important things, like "no tattoos, no piercings". What use is the 'downloaded' tag? And what exactly is 'abcdefghijklmnop'? Is it some hidden element of the shoot? Whatever it is, 68 models have it!

        Comment


          #5
          Since every member can tag a shoot with any tag he/she likes, it's pretty much a given that some tags will look useless to others. If you disagree with a tag, vote it down. That way the system eventually should clean-up all by itself. Seems to me people do ADD tags to shoots/models, but don't use the down-voting/against option yet.

          Comment


            #6
            As with the late list system some tags will have a general utility, meaning and interest others a particular one, perhaps only to the member who created it. Unlike lists where an individual list may have been private or lost within the myriad of public lists, chanced upon only by a particular happenstance, such as seeing it on random lists, opening a shoot and seeing it or by browsing lists, all tags are viewable, can be searched for, filtered to refine the initial search added to, voted up and voted down.
            As Garion mentioned "We're working furiously in the background on several features that will make tags more "list-like" in some ways, but retain the usefulness of tags as well". Perhaps resulting from that work there may emerge a greater differentiation between tags deemed to be of general utility and those of a more personal, private nature. Indeed, I think such a feature request has been made. It may be that as Frans writes "[...]system eventually should clean-up all by itself" possibly aided by, as mentioned in the tag FAQ, "Votes by trusted people (for example, AW staff, or trusted members) may be worth more, 2, 10, 100, 10,000 - it depends." this forming part of the 'deeming' process, might one call it a redeeming feature?

            tom
            Last edited by tom2c7777; 25 June 2010, 11:33 AM. Reason: ? missing

            Comment


              #7
              As Frans notes, I think the tag system will get better with more use.
              Also, note the new features just added which include a My Tags list and My Tags browse filter.

              Comment


                #8
                I think if I was a system designer for AW I would not allow members (unless they had earned the privilege) to add tags. That way such meaningless garbage as 'downloaded' and 'abcdefghijklmnop' would be avoided. From now on, I will purposely vote down any irrelevant tag I see. I hope others will do the same. Lets start the springcleaning now.

                Comment


                  #9
                  .. or implement RESPONSIBLE tagging

                  When you see tagging that looks like this...
                  Click image for larger version

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ID:	639140
                  Is it akin to a member spray painting graffiti, or pissing on the furniture to mark his territory.

                  What do others think?
                  Do we need to have rules or filtering for tags?
                  ie...
                  • tags have to make sense to the general public
                  • tags should be lower case, except the first letter of names.
                  • don't duplicate a tag that already exists with slightly different spelling or conjugation

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I think that pic shows a bug actually, it has the same tag listed several times. That's not what you'd want/expect in that box (bug filed on that).

                    Tags that make no sense already can be voted down by members, trouble is that nobody seems to use the vote-down option. Maybe we have to educate people on that? If so, how ?

                    Personal favs should be marked as favorites, not as lists. Judging by the shown tag-titles, member K uses tags as if they were private lists. That gets crowded very quickly. Thoughts on how to improve the tags system are always welcome. Some refinements are definitly possible and perhaps needed.

                    As for your listed points;

                    1. True, with the note that people likely want to tag models for their private needs as well. Favs alone doesn't allow detailed tagging
                    2. Names should be compared case-insensitive to prevent duplicates yeah, not sure if you want to force capitalization that hard?
                    3. Good rule but how to enforce it, without having 'tag moderators' monitor for it?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Frans, I was thinking more along the lines of education, not enforcement, moderation or strict filtering.
                      We have a good FAQ on tagging already. http://www.abbywinters.com/help/faqs...nal#SearchTags
                      Perhaps add an additional FAQ on tagging, or a help video, with guidelines our rules. Our motto could be "Think before you tag". Mention that in tagging you are not just tagging for yourself, but for the collective good of the other members, now and in the future. Also mention that the models see the tags when they look at shoots.

                      I hereby promise, I'll star using the thumbs down more often!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Frans View Post
                        I think that pic shows a bug actually, it has the same tag listed several times. That's not why you'd want/expect in that box.

                        Tags that make no sense already can be voted down by members, trouble is that nobody seems to use the vote-down option. Maybe we have to educate people on that? If so, how ?

                        Personal favs should be marked as favorites, not as lists. Judging by the shown tag-titles, member K uses tags as if they were private lists. That gets crowded very quickly. Thoughts on how to improve the tags system are always welcome. Some refinements are definitly possible and perhaps needed.

                        As for your listed points;

                        1. True, with the note that people likely want to tag models for their private needs as well. Favs alone doesn't allow detailed tagging
                        2. Names should be compared case-insensitive to prevent duplicates yeah, not sure if you want to force capitalization that hard?
                        3. Good rule but how to enforce it, without having 'tag moderators' monitor for it?
                        Hi frans,

                        It started happening after the 14th July update.

                        "(1) The links to "recent tags" and "random tags", when clicked, now give meaningful results (often in the past, the response was "no results found")."

                        I submitted a bug report when I noticed it happened after I'd tagged some images.

                        As you say Favs doesn't for allow personal tags so they have to be allowed for in general tags and some can be interesting/useful.

                        On the other points, perhaps context sensitive help as with multi-select. Maybe an occasional message on the members pages reminding people to THINK/LOOK BEFORE YOU TAG and that you can vote down and that although people may be reluctant to do so, fearing upsetting another member, it is a function of the system that needs to be implemented.

                        Even after you vote down, an empty tag title still remains, again I've submitted a report on that. I might have missed a way to get rid of those?

                        tom

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Frans View Post
                          I think that pic shows a bug actually, it has the same tag listed several times. That's not what you'd want/expect in that box (bug filed on that).
                          Nobody said that when I pointed it out a few days ago -- sniff sniff

                          Originally posted by Frans View Post
                          Tags that make no sense already can be voted down by members, trouble is that nobody seems to use the vote-down option. Maybe we have to educate people on that? If so, how ?
                          Do you vote down a tag per se or a tag as applied to an image/shoot/model? Let's say a member tags 100 images as "iuyek". To vote that down does one have to visit all 100 images? Does one vote down exactly cancel on tag applies?

                          Originally posted by Frans View Post
                          Personal favs should be marked as favorites, not as lists. Judging by the shown tag-titles, member K uses tags as if they were private lists. That gets crowded very quickly. Thoughts on how to improve the tags system are always welcome. Some refinements are definitly possible and perhaps needed..
                          "not as lists" -- is that a Freudian slip? Did you mean tags?

                          Originally posted by Frans View Post
                          As for your listed points;

                          1. True, with the note that people likely want to tag models for their private needs as well. Favs alone doesn't allow detailed tagging
                          2. Names should be compared case-insensitive to prevent duplicates yeah, not sure if you want to force capitalization that hard?
                          3. Good rule but how to enforce it, without having 'tag moderators' monitor for it?
                          There should be case insensitive comparisons, but don't mess with the case of the tag. "Down Blouse" looks better than "Down blouse" and may actually be more correct because it is not a complete sentence. While on the DB subject, there are two lists Down Blouse and Downblouse. (woops, I see I made the slip too -- I meant tags).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by BigSpud View Post
                            Nobody said that when I pointed it out a few days ago -- sniff sniff
                            Aww.. sorry 'bout that, must have missed it. The duplicates problem has been fixed though, so all is well in the world again.. right?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by BigSpud View Post
                              Let's say a member tags 100 images as "iuyek". To vote that down does one have to visit all 100 images?
                              I've said this before, but it would be really helpful if users could vote down a tag on multiple images at once. It takes just a few seconds to tag a bunch of images at once using "multi select mode", but un-tagging then one by one seems to be a much slower process. I've got a couple of tags (this one and this one) that I made to work out bugs in the system when CMS 2 first came out, so they are totally redundant now; I'd get rid of them to reduce the clutter if I could, but voting down the images one by one would be rather more tedium than my poor little brain can manage.
                              Also, (and I've mentioned this before too) I tend to find that images I've completely removed a tag from will still show up when I browse that tag, which seems to rather defeat the purpose of voting a tag down. Is that a known issue?

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by monkeymagic27 View Post
                                I've said this before, but it would be really helpful if users could vote down a tag on multiple images at once. It takes just a few seconds to tag a bunch of images at once using "multi select mode", but un-tagging then one by one seems to be a much slower process.
                                Yes, something is really needed. There is some rather shitty quality tagging going on that I would like to vote down in mass. Sheesh, "twoo fringers in vagina"! How can you spell vagina correctly and misspell two and fingers.

                                Originally posted by tom2c7777 View Post
                                ... perhaps context sensitive help as with multi-select. Maybe an occasional message on the members pages reminding people to THINK/LOOK BEFORE YOU TAG and that you can vote down and that although people may be reluctant to do so, fearing upsetting another member, it is a function of the system that needs to be implemented.
                                Even after you vote down, an empty tag title still remains, again I've submitted a report on that. I might have missed a way to get rid of those?
                                tom
                                I agree with what Tom stated. We need to have some additional helps or messages pertaining to guidelines for tags
                                Tags are a communal activity. If a member wants to be part of our community (abbywinters staff, members, and models) here they should use the feature responsibly. If that is too much to ask, we should have a housekeeping method to eliminate the messy, incoherent, or even rude (I have seen some) tags that pop up.
                                Last edited by bookmanz; 14 August 2010, 02:29 PM. Reason: Yikes, the fringers guy is back again, tagging videos!

                                Comment

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