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    #91
    Originally posted by IslanderRobert View Post
    The NEW AW does not have LISTS. I Hope they fix this...should be in a main selection on the menu lists and it is not...so, when the OLD AW goes away, then so does the LISTS?
    Not entirely, your own lists will be available for some time via 'My Account'. Basically 'tags' replace lists, tags can be thought of as public lists with the ability for other viewers to vote for/against a certain item being associated with a certain tag.

    See also this FAQ

    Comment


      #92
      List sorrow

      This is my first post to the message boards in nearly 2 years of membership and I regret that it is to have a winge.

      I have 17 private lists ranging from 7 images to 597 images; all grouped according to a theme. I get the procedure for converting lists to tags but a few problems remain (unless I'm missing something):
      1. Do you realise how much work this is to convert them all? I'd like to understand how forcing me to take my attention off the girls and onto 'housekeeping' is such a good idea.
      2. How do I add a random image to one (or several) of my tag groups? All of my lists were a work in progress: (maybe I was going to make them public to share with others).
      3. How do I peruse my tag groups; I can't tell at this point.
      4. How do I make my tag groups public?
      5. On occasion, I would go into a 'list spiral' mode (similar to a wiki spiral) where I would look at a random list on the login page, browse some images in that list, pick new lists from certain images, browse images from the newly found lists and so on. It was a very relaxing and spontaneous exercise. I can't see how I can do this with tags.

      Lists were a great part of the AW community. Unless the tag system fully replicates the functionality of the list system (and adds new functionality) I can't see the benefit nor find the motivation to do all that 'housekeeping' work.

      Comment


        #93
        1. If you set pics-per-page to 100 in My Account you should be able to copy your existing lists to tags fairly quickly. Yes, it is a chore but it can be done pretty fast.
        2. Just click on 'add tag' when viewing the item you want it to a tag (group as you call them)
        3. Search box, enter the tag name, click on the search button
        4. Tags are always public, the only things private are your old lists.
        5. Search box, enter the tag name, click on the search button, sort on 'Random'

        Comment


          #94
          I have posted on this thread before, to say how I regret losing the old personal lists.
          Tags do not, repeat not, replace them, since the lists were my own choice of pictures and mine alone - a personal archive of what I liked and what turned me on. They are no longer the same if other members can add to them - other people's tastes may not be the same as mine (in fact, looking at other lists on similar themes, it is very clear that they are not!).
          And also, looking at the tags that have been added to new sets, many of them have nothing to do with the image in question - in a few months (let alone years) the lists of tags will be huge, and a huge mess.
          I am glad I can still get at my existing lists - but one post above (#91) suggests this will be for a limited time only; please reassure us that they will remain accessible.
          But, far better, please please reinstate the possibility of making personal lists.
          Last edited by hippoid; 24 April 2010, 11:21 AM.

          Comment


            #95
            Originally posted by Frans View Post
            1. If you set pics-per-page to 100 in My Account you should be able to copy your existing lists to tags fairly quickly. Yes, it is a chore but it can be done pretty fast.
            2. Just click on 'add tag' when viewing the item you want it to a tag (group as you call them)
            3. Search box, enter the tag name, click on the search button
            4. Tags are always public, the only things private are your old lists.
            5. Search box, enter the tag name, click on the search button, sort on 'Random'
            Maximum images you can select/convert at once is 200. With lists with hundreds or thousands of images it's more than a chore. It's a disaster!!!

            Tags automatically become public? And any wrecker can add crap to this tag 'group' which was a list I spent months/years building? What if I want to keep them private while I'm developing them? Some smart fella decided I should change, huh? great ...

            Why can't I see a list of the tag 'groups' I've created? I have 17 lists and I can't guarantee I can always remember what I called them (I'm getting old and crankier, by the minute it seems).

            This decision by AW to do away with list functionality smells like advice from an IT nerd: "Do this and your server/connection/whatever will work less hard." But that IT nerd can't relate to people, let alone customers (it's why he's a nerd), and can't conceive the rage this move is going to cause.

            Bring back lists!!

            Comment


              #96
              Originally posted by garionhall View Post
              Agree. So we need members to nominate what lists are valuable, and we'll port them (and crowd-source the cleanup, if necessary). I agree, there are some valuable lists, but there are millions of lists that are of no value at all, and we don;t want to port legacy for legacy's sake.
              Well, for one, "Cant talk...eating!!!!"

              But there are lots of others. I agree with a previous post that using lists is one of the best ways to browse. Millions of lists--really??

              Anyway, register my vote to somehow save the lists.

              Comment


                #97
                Originally posted by eturboots View Post
                Maximum images you can select/convert at once is 200. With lists with hundreds or thousands of images it's more than a chore. It's a disaster!!!

                Tags automatically become public? And any wrecker can add crap to this tag 'group' which was a list I spent months/years building? What if I want to keep them private while I'm developing them? Some smart fella decided I should change, huh? great ...

                Why can't I see a list of the tag 'groups' I've created? I have 17 lists and I can't guarantee I can always remember what I called them (I'm getting old and crankier, by the minute it seems).

                This decision by AW to do away with list functionality smells like advice from an IT nerd: "Do this and your server/connection/whatever will work less hard." But that IT nerd can't relate to people, let alone customers (it's why he's a nerd), and can't conceive the rage this move is going to cause.

                Bring back lists!!
                I definitely agree with et...bring back all the lists....in many ways it was a terrific way to find models, you may not have seen before (particularily the older ones)..tags dont cut it...so, let see, Garion says many lists will be dropped...hmmm...how many members does he want to drop their memberships, cause the IT folks are saying AW has too many lists...I like reviewing the lists other members (past and present) thought were very good enough to create a list.
                Money from members or dropped lists...hmm...?
                Robert

                Comment


                  #98
                  I may be an abnormal user, but I seldom would just click around onto other peoples lists. I always found lists a little frustrating. I don't miss them. I've moved on this past week.
                  I had about 12 lists that I had made, The ones I cared about most I have made made into tags that I have attributed to Models and/or images. I have been a heavy user of the new site the past week and feel like the searching, filtering, and tags are working great now.
                  Last edited by bookmanz; 26 April 2010, 02:24 AM. Reason: erased excess

                  Comment


                    #99
                    Originally posted by eturboots View Post
                    Maximum images you can select/convert at once is 200. With lists with hundreds or thousands of images it's more than a chore. It's a disaster!!!
                    Well, tagging a page of 100 images should probably take 10 to 30 seconds or so, so even a huge list with 3000 images would take between 5 and 15 minutes to convert to tags. Is that really a disaster?

                    Originally posted by eturboots View Post
                    Tags automatically become public? And any wrecker can add crap to this tag 'group' which was a list I spent months/years building? What if I want to keep them private while I'm developing them? Some smart fella decided I should change, huh? great ...
                    I agree it would be nice if tags had the option to be public or private.
                    Obviously tags are open to vandalism since anyone can edit them, but most people aren't jerks, most people will contribute in a positive way.

                    Originally posted by eturboots View Post
                    Why can't I see a list of the tag 'groups' I've created? I have 17 lists and I can't guarantee I can always remember what I called them (I'm getting old and crankier, by the minute it seems).
                    When entering text you get a number of suggestions, your tags should show up if the text you're entering is sufficiently close to the tag. I guess you could bookmark or favorite your tags so that you can find them easily?

                    I think people are innately hostile to change, but give it a chance, it's a different system, but not necessarily a worse system.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by IslanderRobert View Post
                      I definitely agree with et...bring back all the lists....in many ways it was a terrific way to find models, you may not have seen before (particularily the older ones)..tags dont cut it..
                      Why not? As far as finding models via other shoots is concerned, tags are exactly the same as lists. The tag system should actually work better for that purpose since other people can add models to a tag (which was a thing I missed with lists).

                      Comment


                        Frans - Can you let us know the detail of what you suggested in post #91, that our old lists will be available 'for some time'; does that mean that in due course they will be trashed? and, if so, please let us know, in good time, when?? (see my post #94 explaining why I would so like the links to our personal, private lists to be kept, even if we can no longer add to them).

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by garionhall View Post
                          JAO, actually, we have come up with a solution that should keep the feature you describe, a way for you to see tags that you have applied (regardless if someone else has voted them up or down). We hope to implement it soon.
                          WooHoo!!!

                          Comment


                            All I know is that with lists if you wanted to look at blue-eyed English girls with freckles. Good luck. Let me know how long it takes to find such a list. It would be quicker to make a list with those models from scratch.

                            This took me 10 seconds on the new site.

                            Here is the thread we discussed searching the site with tags.
                            http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulle...ad.php?t=12037
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by bookmanz; 27 April 2010, 03:09 AM.

                            Comment


                              Hi guys,

                              Thanks for your feedback on Lists and Tags - it's valuable, and we are reading it. As I have mentioned before, we will be keeping "trashing" Lists data indefinitely, so no data is going to be lost.

                              As I also mentioned, we are working on some neat solutions that add in the features of Lists and conbine them with tags, that satisfy both parties thoroughly.

                              Finally, there are no IT nerds convincing anyone of anything. I work closely with members, models, and staff to make the best possible product, a process that involves many compromises every day. But we're not out to please everyone all the time, and inevitably, when things change, people decide the new changes are not for them (anecdotally, we have had more threats of leaving from the colour of the pages, than the loss of the Lists functionality).

                              Every time we have made changes we have detractors, and those detractors have helped us revise the changes to make the site you love(d) today. So i ask that you stick with us, enjoy the content, and help us make an even better site.

                              Comment


                                At the moment I can't download a public list from the old site. I click "Check all on list", and they all get checked; then I click "Download custom zip", and all that happens is that the checks disappear and I get re-routed to the home page of the new site.

                                Is this my error, or has the download function been removed?

                                Comment


                                  As far as I know all members now go to the new site. I have forwarded the question to HQ (CS) if the old download-entire-list-as-zip functionality is currently supported.

                                  You CAN do something similar on the new site by using the multi-select tool when viewing a specific tag. You can then download the tagged pics as a zip.

                                  Comment


                                    Is it possible to take a public list from the old site, not one of my own, and somehow take it to the new site more or less as it is? I am thinking specifically of the lists which contain images selected by some member on a certain theme, not the lists which are of entire shoots or just the names of models.

                                    Also, is there some way to find a complete list of tags on the new site apart from via that messy and apparently incomplete board thing that comes up when you ask to see more tags? Can't they just be set out alphabetically, all of them?

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by monkeymagic27 View Post
                                      Well, tagging a page of 100 images should probably take 10 to 30 seconds or so, so even a huge list with 3000 images would take between 5 and 15 minutes to convert to tags. Is that really a disaster?
                                      You miss the point.

                                      Creating a list has taken a lot of time and effort - no doubt it was pleasurable effort but it was effort nonetheless.

                                      The decision to eliminate Lists will put the onus of preserving all the results of that effort onto customers. In simple terms, the message to us is: "sorry customers, you can all just start again"

                                      And I dispute the estimate of time required. You might get that sort of time performance if you're down the street from the server and have a fast fibre connection, but an experiment I conducted to convert a list of 600 images into a tag took 30 minutes. So I stand by the term 'disaster'.

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by bookmanz View Post
                                        All I know is that with lists if you wanted to look at blue-eyed English girls with freckles. Good luck. Let me know how long it takes to find such a list. It would be quicker to make a list with those models from scratch.

                                        This took me 10 seconds on the new site.

                                        Here is the thread we discussed searching the site with tags.
                                        http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulle...ad.php?t=12037
                                        and
                                        Originally posted by monkeymagic27 View Post
                                        I think people are innately hostile to change, but give it a chance, it's a different system, but not necessarily a worse system.
                                        Yes I agree that the tag system has some benefits and when you're in the mood for 'blue-eyed English girls with freckles' or another specific combination of characteristics Tags will (ahem) come into their own. Nevertheless, Lists had good features too. Most importantly, Lists represented a collection(s) of categorised favourites (not to mention representing a degree of effort on behalf of the list creator). Also, when browsing random lists prepared by other people, the spontenaity was very nice: you were never sure what gem you would find.

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by Frans View Post
                                          The tag system should actually work better for that purpose since other people can add models to a tag (which was a thing I missed with lists).
                                          and

                                          Originally posted by monkeymagic27 View Post
                                          Obviously tags are open to vandalism since anyone can edit them, but most people aren't jerks, most people will contribute in a positive way.
                                          Are you sure about that? I've seen a lot of jerks on other websites. As an editor on Wikipedia and on other Wikis, I see the jerks every day.

                                          Are AW staff going to manage the problem (assuming it arises)?

                                          Here are 13 models who are supposed to be blonde ...

                                          I count 7; 5 that may be naturals.
                                          Attached Files
                                          Last edited by eturboots; 29 April 2010, 10:29 AM. Reason: Edited to include some blonde models: just to prove that public tagging probably won't give you the results you want...

                                          Comment


                                            Originally posted by garionhall View Post
                                            (anecdotally, we have had more threats of leaving from the colour of the pages, than the loss of the Lists functionality).
                                            Yeah well, I think it's futile for a site user to threaten leaving over any of these issues. New sign ups occur every day (I suspect) and they won't know any different. My comments reflect frustration at having to perform what I regard as unnecessary 'housekeeping' to convert my lists into a new system. Convert them for me and replicate the functionality and I won't have anything to winge about.

                                            Apart from this issue, I regard AW.com as the finest site available and I've been paying for porn online since it was possible to do so. So please take my comments in context.

                                            Of course, bringning Cate back for an IM will go a LOOOONG way to keep me happy.

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by eturboots View Post
                                              Are you sure about that? I've seen a lot of jerks on other websites. As an editor on Wikipedia and on other Wikis, I see the jerks every day.

                                              Are AW staff going to manage the problem (assuming it arises)?

                                              Here are 13 models who are supposed to be blonde ...

                                              I count 7; 5 that may be naturals.
                                              You (as in 'all members') can vote if a tag is either correct or incorrect for a model or shoot. If you disagree with a model tagged as 'blonde' for example, simply click on the RED hand-down symbol next to that tag (hoover over it).

                                              Besides that, yes abuse will be dealt with. I know a bit about that since I brought it up at the first tests, I like to wreck things during testing We belief eventually the overal members will mostly solve the possible abuse problems all by themself.

                                              As for your specific problem mentioned, I can't get that search (blonde models) to work right now. However, tagging a model as 'blonde' is risky anyway. Models tend to change hair colors between shoots

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by Jackson49 View Post
                                                Is it possible to take a public list from the old site, not one of my own, and somehow take it to the new site more or less as it is? I am thinking specifically of the lists which contain images selected by some member on a certain theme, not the lists which are of entire shoots or just the names of models.

                                                Also, is there some way to find a complete list of tags on the new site apart from via that messy and apparently incomplete board thing that comes up when you ask to see more tags? Can't they just be set out alphabetically, all of them?
                                                1. Garion did invite requests for lists to be converted to tags, feel free to post the names here.

                                                2. There is currently no full list of tags available, you CAN change the format of that cloud slightly via My Account. Other then that it's best to view shoots you like and see what tags those have. Follow the tags..

                                                Comment


                                                  Originally posted by Frans View Post
                                                  As for your specific problem mentioned, I can't get that search (blonde models) to work right now. However, tagging a model as 'blonde' is risky anyway. Models tend to change hair colors between shoots
                                                  Which is why lists exert greater 'discipline' over the process than these tags will. For example, my list (private at this stage) is called "Fair Hair ..." and features 196 eye-catching images of fair (blonde, light brown or red) pubic hair, which is a truer indication of natural hair colour than head hair which changes regularly. While I'm the only person adding to that list, I can ensure the continued integrity of the list. With others 'contributing' who knows what will be added and the list becomes worthless.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by Frans View Post
                                                    1. Garion did invite requests for lists to be converted to tags, feel free to post the names here.
                                                    Abbywinters.com already has data on which lists are popular. Website stats will suffice. Keep those that are regularly visited, archive the rest for 3 months and reinstate archived lists on request during that 3 months. After 3 months discard the archived lists.

                                                    Comment


                                                      Originally posted by Frans View Post
                                                      2. There is currently no full list of tags available, you CAN change the format of that cloud slightly via My Account. Other then that it's best to view shoots you like and see what tags those have. Follow the tags..
                                                      Call me a dinosaur, but I find the way of searching tags is simply un-intuitive and confusing.

                                                      What little of the system I do understand is that if lots of people vote for a tag, it will be prominent in the cloud. If you're the only one with a particular taste and thus the only person to vote for a particular tag, it will wallow in obscurity and you won't be able to find it.

                                                      Further, it seems that to make the tag system work at all, we'll all have to become rampant taggers, rather than what we really want to do which is find the content we like in the shortest possible time and start, ahem, 'enjoying it'.

                                                      With lists we can compile our favoured content according to our own tastes (rather than what others think should be catalogued together), link to it in our browser favourites or bookmarks and return to that content in seconds.

                                                      Comment


                                                        eturboots, thanks for the feedback. We're working furiously in the background on several features that will make tags more "list-like" in some ways, but retain the usefulness of tags as well. I am sure you'll be very pleased with the results, as it will specifically improve in the areas you mention.

                                                        Comment


                                                          Two other problems with tags as they are being used at present:
                                                          a single tag is often getting applied to all the pictures in a set (e.g. tattoo, shaved) even if the tattoo or shaving is not visible in many of the photos.
                                                          And some tags are being applied to almost all the pix on the site, especially 'fave'; I clicked on this, found there were 29351 photos and it siezed up the site and my computer!

                                                          Comment


                                                            Originally posted by Frans View Post
                                                            Why not? As far as finding models via other shoots is concerned, tags are exactly the same as lists. The tag system should actually work better for that purpose since other people can add models to a tag (which was a thing I missed with lists).
                                                            I also believe, that Abby Winters enabling the members to create their own list and the models and staff their lists, as well...really added to the uniqueness of Abby Winters. In the list, the members were contributing to the site and you this made you feel, like you were really making a contribution to the enjoyment of the site for the other members. There are no other sites where the members can do this.(no this does not mean Facebook, Twitter, et all). There were some great lists. I love browsing through them on a rainy day...Upon reflection, there were indeed too many... perhaps...but, this made AW so unique and as a member I felt I was contributing to my enjoyment of why I was a member. As for tags, I dont get to create them, they are based on words from lists and are not the same at all...They really are not...they appear in some kind of cloud form, where some are prominent and others are not...it is not the same experience with tags...it is not what I want to call the Abby Winters Experience....I am sure Garion and all the staff did some major discussions over such a huge change, as there were a plethora of lists..but, I loved them...and because many had been around for a while, you could see some of the AW models archived form the past, you may not have seen before, browsing through the models lists..truly, my experience at Abby Winters is no longer unique, as it was before and why I resigned onto my memebership and kept it for so long...I do like the look and feel of the new site, sometimes changes are good...but, I cannot contribute to the site like I used to...
                                                            Robert

                                                            Comment


                                                              Originally posted by IslanderRobert View Post
                                                              [...] As for tags, I dont get to create them,[...]
                                                              Robert,

                                                              But you do, you can create tags for whichever entity you wish, model, shoot, video, image, that's why there's an Add a tag button for more information go to the FAQ page Site Guide - How do I tag something? As for the cloud you can change how this appear (a little) from your My Account Preferences page and an alphabetical list option is on the way in the next few weeks.

                                                              tom

                                                              Comment

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