google

[Xabbyy3]

Hi,
It's a bit off-topic, but why are google - (google analytics) allowed on this site to track us?
Don't say they don't, because they can and do. Acording to my firefox plugin, they are tracking where I am going on this site, or would be, if I hadn't blocked them.

Cheers

[sterling3]

they all track you part of the head job the goverments are playing protecting us from ourselves as what they claim anyway

[wolfgangbuster29]

Cool that you've found a way to block them How did you manage to do that with Firefox? How can one block them with IE8?

In my belief it may be a bit of an infringement on AW's right to protect its content from the intrusion of outsiders and hackers and Goole or anyone managing to get in and see what paid members are doing whilst logged in sounds to me as a hack attempt against AW and a blatant breach of security against the AW company, its website and its subscribers. If they want in bad enough why don't they just pay for their subscription like everyone else and abide by the rules and terms of service of our site?

I think Google's gone way too far with this one, and Xabby, I'm glad you've shone some much-needed light on this matter. Good on ya.

[Frans]

What on earth are you talking about wolfgang ?

Google offers services which help webmasters get insight in visitors to their websites. The way that works is that the webmaster includes code on his/her pages which sends stats to his/her Google account. Google processes and stores that data, and makes graphs and such of it. It's a service, not some evil intrusion or something.

Note that due to the enormous amount of data details aren't kept either way, mostly which region of users visit what part of your site. It might also help trace slow-loading-page problems. See also: http://www.google.com/analytics , it's basically the same data which could be sampled directly from the AW servers logs, but Google (Urchin to be exact) has ready-made tools for it. Much easier And no, they don't look at AW content for free over at Google ;-)

Blocking google-tracking is easy, heck even google offers a plug-in for that nowadays. (which in true Google fashion is Beta of course, heh). That would however eventually force AW to do it's own analysis, which is costly.

In summary, we're talking about analyzing visitor patterns for and requested by AW itself.

Now onto important matters, Angie's new solo just went live!

[violetafan]

I recommend using Firefox with the NoScript addon.

The addon means that JavaScript on web pages does not run until allowed on a per-domain basis.

So for example, "abbywinters.com" JS can run while "google-analytics.com" JS is blocked.

As Frans said, there's nothing sinister about Google Analytics -- it's just a useful tool for website managers to get anonymous stats like page usage and user's PC capabilities (screen area, browser type + version, etc).

There are likely addons just for blocking Analytics, but NoScript is good because it also protects against rare but potentially serious security issues.

[tom2c7777]

Some might find this of interest.

Now to Angie

tom

[sterling3]

yes to ANGIE EVERYTIME

[Xabbyy3]

How to block web bugs and spy stuff

Cool that you've found a way to block them How did you manage to do that with Firefox? How can one block them with IE8?

In my belief it may be a bit of an infringement on AW's right to protect its content from the intrusion of outsiders and hackers and Goole or anyone managing to get in and see what paid members are doing whilst logged in sounds to me as a hack attempt against AW and a blatant breach of security against the AW company, its website and its subscribers. If they want in bad enough why don't they just pay for their subscription like everyone else and abide by the rules and terms of service of our site?

I think Google's gone way too far with this one, and Xabby, I'm glad you've shone some much-needed light on this matter. Good on ya.

Hi Wolf, & everyone,
My recommendation is NEVER use IE - it is a huge security hole and you will get infected just surfing the web. Reason? Because IE is tightly integrated with the Windows kernel, and it is made by Microsoft, whose code is plagued by security holes. Ever see a virus on Apple or Linux? No, they only infect Windows (bar some theoretical examples that are not in the wild).

It is much safer to use Firefox or any other browser (firefox, chrome, Opera, Safari).

I use chrome for some minor stuff. I use Firefox for 95% of browsing. I install the following firefox "addons" aka plugins that make surfing safer, more private, faster and more fun:
Adbock Plus
NoScript
And most important for blocking spy and tracking stuff:
Ghostery

http://www.ghostery.com

Using Ghostery is an eye opener, for every site it tells you what is spying on you and information about them, and gives you the option of blocking them, so they can spy no longer.

HIGHLY recommended!

AW should not let google spy on people on a site that is, let's face it, considered to be pornographic. Yes AW make money from google this way, but google make money out of us, and besides, do you really want an American all-powerful company knowing what
models you are oggling, and how often you are watching girls wacking off?

We pay money to be here, we deserve privacy and respect. AW, by letting google track us on this site, have acted in poor judgment, and embarrassed us all. It's is the same as having any google engineer peer over our shoulder as we browse AW, and noting down everwhere we go and everything we do.

AW should get rid of the google tracking software, especially for paying customers who expect to be treated well.

Google analytics are NOT innocent - that is naive. AW have let us down.

From:

http://labnol.blogspot.com/2005/11/prevent-google-analytics-from-tracking.html

{
How this works : Google Analytics downloads a small javascript urchin.js (Google Analytics Urchin Module) on the client's computer which reports the all the tracking and analyzing data about the visitor back to Google.
}

Even if the software is believed in good faith to be configured to be used in such a way that it is deemed not to be evil, there is the potential that this software is telling google, and indeed anyone else, what you are doing at AW.

Google analytics tracking or any tracking, should not be used on a discreet site. I for one am deeply uncomfortable about it and do not trust it at all. It's like putting "I browse AW" on your facebook profile, you're browsing of AW is (potentially at least) being tracked by external organisations, google, governments, anyone that pays for the data, (Marketers love it) you name it.

[wolfgangbuster29]

Thanks, Xabby. Good keeping an eye out for us. I'll give Firefox a spin. It does make sense that Google would be in bed with Microsoft and it seems all too obvious that Google has gotten way too big for its britches a long time ago and somebody needs to put the reins on Google finally.

[Frans]

It must be hard to live in this connected world being so paranoid. If you don't want to be seen by the evil power-hungy firms or goverments don't get on the internet.

p.s. look up who bought Ghostery a couple of months ago.

[gef]

Let's nip some of this paranoia in the bud shall we.

We've added Google Analytics (GA) to abbywinters.com so we can gather anonymous statistics about how people use the site, and how changes to different parts of the site affect that use. We do not, nor can we (using GA), track who you are and what you've done. We only get anonymous information about how many people visit each page, how they got to that page and non-identifying information about how you're viewing that page; e.g. Which browser you're using, which country you came from, etc.

We use GA to gather statistics about how users are using the site so we can focus our attention on improving the bits that matter the most, both to us as a business and to you as users. Your privacy (and trust) is extremely important to us and we would never have used GA if we were concerned about Google using the data inappropriately.

Hopefully this has cleared up some of your concerns. But if you're still not comfortable with GA, you're certainly welcome to use any tools you like to block it. Just keep in mind that some of the tools may cause issues with accessing the site for which we're unlikely to be able to provide support.

Google (if you trust them enough) provides an opt-out browser plugin/extension that supports most major browsers: http://tools.google.com/dlpage/gaoptout?hl=en
If you're using Firefox there are an abundance of addons you can install to block just about anything; violetafan has already recommended the Firefox addon NoScript.

[wolfgangbuster29]

Let's nip some of this paranoia in the bud shall we.

We've added Google Analytics (GA) to abbywinters.com so we can gather anonymous statistics about how people use the site, and how changes to different parts of the site affect that use. We do not, nor can we (using GA), track who you are and what you've done. We only get anonymous information about how many people visit each page, how they got to that page and non-identifying information about how you're viewing that page; e.g. Which browser you're using, which country you came from, etc.

It's not so much a paranoia that we express, it's more of a need for awareness, and knowledge is power. Citizens should never have to succumb to such a sneaky form of scrutiny, and in a day & age of political unrest and political corruption citizens are sick of all the scrutiny that's been going on, therefore citizens will benefit from as much armour and ammunition so as to protect their Constitutional and First Amendment rights (what's remaining of them anyway). We've had enough of Big Brother and again, Google has gone much too far in using its technological prowess as a way to put people under a microscope.

[bookmanz]

gef, thanks for taking time out from your busy AW duties to answer some people. I appreciate your post, even though I was familiar with how GA works and how personal identifiable information is not tracked. Since this "subject" has been brought up, you might want to add salient points from your post to the AW privacy page?

Enough ill-informed Google bashing! Moderators?

[Xabbyy3]

Let me just say that you are installing google analytics that a) tracks us all over the web and b) sends data to google.
What could possibly go wrong?
AW should not allow *any* tracking software that sends data to google, or even has the possibility of doing so. We are paying you directly! You are trying to screw us twice.

You guys should not imply that I am paranoid. I am saying that you are violating my privacy and other customer's privacy in a way that is unacceptable. Your cavalier approach to having google send data to their servers based on our browsing of your porn site is disingenuous.

Google analytics knows who we are by tracking our browsers, so that the data is "anonymous" (assuming it is) is irrelevant, google can still trace it back to us.

This is not parnaoia, I work in the industry.

[tjsunray]

A bit slightly off-topic...just wanted to give my "Thumbs up" to Firefox which i ( hesitantly,due to my familiarity with IE7 only) downloaded to-day and switched from IE7.The difference in speed is quite noticeable and now regret that I didn't make the switch sooner.No more "Pop Ups" during internet browsing from IE7 informing me that "cannot make the connection"...don't know why that occurred but it has disappeared since switching to Firefox...I definitely recommend it.
.

[violetafan]

...just wanted to give my "Thumbs up" to Firefox ... switched from IE7.The difference in speed is quite noticeable....

Firefox is definitely faster than IE (and draws pages more correctly), but is generally considered slower overall than Chrome; Chrome is a bit slicker-looking too -- the upcoming version 4 of Firefox should improve all this however.

Addon support is the deal-breaker that makes me use Firefox; Chrome has improved since launch, but is still well behind -- I'd particularly hate to web-browse without Firefox's version of AdBlock Plus.

My general advice would be to pick a browser that suits your priorities, as long as it's not IE.

[tjsunray]

r.

Addon support is the deal-breaker that makes me use Firefox; Chrome has improved since launch, but is still well behind -- I'd particularly hate to web-browse without Firefox's version of AdBlock Plus.

Hey vf thanks for the response, i've been surfing the net using Firefox for the last 2 days with absolutely no "pop-ups"or any type of advert. interference...do you think it's still necessary to download the "AdBlock Plus"...or do i have sufficient protection from my existing IP...Anti-virus,Anti-spyware,Firewall.

[foolsfortune]

I love Chrome and haven't really used Firefox or IE for any real length of time in about a year. I use AdThwart which is a almost as good as AdBlockPlus.

[violetafan]

... i've been surfing the net using Firefox for the last 2 days with absolutely no "pop-ups"or any type of advert. interference...do you think it's still necessary to download the "AdBlock Plus"...or do i have sufficient protection from my existing IP...Anti-virus,Anti-spyware,Firewall.

AdBlock does enhance security (by blocking known malware domains), but the visible benefit is having pages without the clutter and distraction of embedded ads.

Also beneficial is that that the ads are not even downloaded (last I read, equivalent addons in Chrome hide ads but still download them); saves money in countries where internet access is billed on data usage, and also speeds up page loading.

[Xabbyy3]

what do people think

of when they come here, learn that they are, in effect, being tracked by google? Do you guys want marketers and strangers to know your habits on AW?

[toeluvr]

What can google tell by tracking my AW habits? That I'm a single male who enjoys porn. Big whoop. I don't go around shouting it, but I doubt anyone would be shocked to find out I like porn. As far as marketers go I don't get an abundance of spam or unsolicited e-mail. I imagine most if not all commercial websites employ google analytics or similar programs for their own research. It's not limited to the web either and it's definitely not a new concept. It's called market research and it's been going on for hundreds and probably thousands of years in some form or another. This is just the Digital Age. As far as governments go, so what? There's nothing illegal about viewing this site. I see the point that you're trying to make Xabby, and I'm not burying my head in the sand. I just don't have an issue with it. I don't subscribe to the theory that AW MUST be absolutely discreet either.

[foolsfortune]

@Xabbyy3 : I don't care.

[wolfgangbuster29]

@Xabbyy3 : I don't care.

Some of us here do care, and we wish folks would have respect for that as well.

As for the scrutiny aspect of it, Law enforcements in some communities in America do in fact, have jurisdiction to randomly search someone's computer and without warrant or forewarning. technology is such that they can initiate a search from remote location and also query an Internet account holder's browsing history. It's a form of legal wiretapping that is supported by the Patriot Act and as I said a moment ago, it's done at random. I'ts Law enforcement lookin' to fabricate trouble outta nothin' so why give them the upperhand? Why not fight it instead, in a way that represents our Constitution and bill of rights?

Law enforcement has been in bed with major corporations such as Google, Siemens and Microsoft in a ploy to continually chip away at what's left of our Constitutional rights and it's silly to let them continue on that path. The more we let them take, bit-by-bit, the more they gain total control over our lives and when our rights and privacy are all gone thre ain't no gettin' it back.

[foolsfortune]

Like some others have said, I think you guys are getting a little paranoid.

[toeluvr]

My point is stop blaming AW for doing something most if not all commercial websites do. It's not their responsibility to keep our identities or browsing habits secret. I understand what you're saying about being tracked by the government and such. Though be careful, that conversation could easily stray into the political area which is a no-no on this forum. Nevertheless, those worries and fears are valid. Just use blocking software.

[wolfgangbuster29]

...Nevertheless, those worries and fears are valid. Just use blocking software.

That I think is the best solution for now.

[tom2c7777]

I would have been somewhat surprised to find that AW was not utilising some third party analytical tools such as GA. Other than that it has never overly impinged upon my consciousness. If it had I would have taken such steps as I deemed necessary to obviate the issue.

tom

[Xabbyy3]

Freedom of privacy

It seems from the replies here, some people do not care about privacy. But some of us do care if data about what I am doing on AW goes to google. It's an invasion of privacy, and when I am paying money for membership that money should be enough. AW should respect my privacy.
My privacy is being invaded, and not just me, but of anyone who is not savvy enough to block google.
Google are not a person, they are a corporation, and they answer to their shareholders, and their only obligation is to their shareholders. They can use data on you any way they like, and one day, you might not like it.
Also, once data is out there, it has a habit of escaping into the wild.
Some of you do not mind your porn-surfing habits being public, but to my mind, AW should not make this possible.
They should remove Google Analytics and any tracking software from the members section. It should only be used for non-paying areas of the site, if at all.

Assume that any data that is leaked to a 3rd party, like google or anyone else, will end up on a website sooner or later, either leaked to wiki-leaks or some other repository, and whatever, and end up on a website. It can contain your name and what you were downloading. Such data can be replicated all over the web by mischievous types.

Assume that any data (anonymous or not) will be tracked to you, and will be published on the web. That is what I mean by invasion of privacy. All data that google analytics get is from your own browser, and google knows who you are from your browser, and can correlate that data with your email and all other sites you browse that have google analytics (most of them it seems).

So information about what porn you watch is, sooner or later, going to end up as public knowledge. Work on that assumption. Angry yet? Disturbed? No? you should be.

Why? You may be embarrassed - or lose your job.

why should you worry? It an cause severe embarassment and also loss of money, friends, relationships... not everyone has the same blaze opinion of porn than you.

This is an example - one day you want to apply for a well paid senior management position within a company or government organisation. Human Resorces (full of feminists) browse the web and perform a search on you, and they discover that you have been watching women masturbating on a porn site. You are sent a rejection letter, you didn't get that job. And you don't know why.

One day you go to a dating site, and you put up a personal ad. Women find out from a website, by doing a search on you, that you have been downloading videos of women masturbating, and they think "pervert" and they instead date the other guy who didn't have any data about his porn surfing habits leaked online.

Your mum and dad find out what you are up to, watching masturbation videos. Your little sister finds out. The people you work for find out, the people that work for you find out. They snigger about you behind your back. Or to your face. Your in-laws talk about you as being a pervert.

Some of you may have no friends or family, but, anyway, you get the idea.

You might laugh off these as absurd, but already people are rejected from jobs from things on their Facebook profiles, which is the kind of thing that did not happen a few years ago. Be very worried about what google knows about you, and assume that any data that goes to google can leak anywhere else, via marketers, governments and who know what.


Just try to think things through, before saying, I don't care if corporations snoop on my porn surfing. AW, please get rid of google analystics, there are other tools that collect statistics on who does what on your site that can be used for internal use only and will not tell marketing companies like google. And yes, google is a marketing company.

AW - do the right thing!

[wolfgangbuster29]

It seems from the replies here, some people do not care about privacy. But some of us do care if data about what I am doing on AW goes to google. It's an invasion of privacy, and when I am paying money for membership that money should be enough. AW should respect my privacy.
My privacy is being invaded, and not just me, but of anyone who is not savvy enough to block google.
Google are not a person, they are a corporation, and they answer to their shareholders, and their only obligation is to their shareholders. They can use data on you any way they like, and one day, you might not like it.
Also, once data is out there, it has a habit of escaping into the wild.
Some of you do not mind your porn-surfing habits being public, but to my mind, AW should not make this possible.
They should remove Google Analytics and any tracking software from the members section. It should only be used for non-paying areas of the site, if at all.
AW can monitor what we are doing within the site without sending data to Google, they can use any number of tracking tools that do not send data to an external corporation, American or otherwise.
People, those of you that do not care about your privacy are perhaps naive and Wolf is right, you should worry about this invasion of your privacy and erosion of your freedoms.

Well said, mate.

[toeluvr]

So it's AW's fault if I get caught watching porn. No...wait, it's Google's fault. No...wait, it's Facebook's fault. No...wait, it's the government's fault. No...wait, it sure isn't my fault.