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    Pre-shoots for T3 videos

    This is my first post so please excuse me if I screw up somewhere.

    Wow! This is hard to write because Abbywinters has always been such a marvelous site to visit but I have to admit to being very disappointed in the latest trend in pre-shoot T3 videos.


    It appears that the old system where a staff member chats with the two models for a few minutes is being replaced by a somewhat sanitized and tediously long Q&A between the two models, asking each other questions from a prepared list. To be honest it somewhat reminds me of a pre-op consultation between a doctor and a patient awaiting surgery: all rather technical and sterile.


    Possibly the worst example of this is between Mila and Sasha M which led to a shoot almost totally devoid of emotion and lacking any chemistry between the two. Often Mila seemed distracted by the peculiar wrapping around her left arm (why was it there?).

    There are many good examples from the old system but perhaps that between Carmina and Karlijn clearly demonstrates what I am talking about.

    I would like to find out if I am out of sync with other members so please let me know what you think.

    #2
    You're not alone.
    I made a thread talking about it but it seems that AW doesn't want to change anything.

    Comment


      #3
      That thread is more about the actual questions (and mostly solo near the end). This thread seems to be more about the format. The pre-shoots depend a lot on the models involved, some are better at talking up a storm. It's not difficult to get Carmina to talk a lot, heh

      I can imagine it being hard to keep up a conversation while aiming a camera. We need an experienced interviewer with camera skills, hmm...;-)

      What do you think works best; interviewing models separately or together?

      Comment


        #4
        Boomertoo, thanks for the feedback.

        We did change the format to have models interview each other (rather than an interviewer), in an effort to get more "honest" answers (something many customers had called for). I agree it does not always work, and you certainly picked a good example of that!

        But I am not convinced that having an interviewer ask the questions would have made the shoot itself any better. The fact is, we make many GG shoots, and sometimes the models just don't hit it off (or they hit it off in different ways from what we might expect, or what our customers want).

        I am not sure how many GG scenes you have watched, do you really think it's time to stop this kind of interview, or is it possible you saw one that's not very good, and some others are excellent?

        Comment


          #5
          Hi Garion

          I agree that the pre-shoot may not affect the shoot itself, though in the case in point it might have done. In any event I think the two models just didn’t seem to click at all.

          Personally I love the old format pre-shoots. Mostly they were short and sweet and just so much fun (ref: Katy and Lacey) and, for me, added interest to the actual shoot and the post-shoot videos. A good interviewer helps of course, like Masie or Sue Ann. I just think the new format is way too clinical in its approach, and way too long. By all means let the models talk together off-camera, but after the pre-shoot is completed. What details they discuss would be up to them depending on how well they hit it off together.

          I have seen a lot of the GG shoots and really enjoy seeing how the models respond to each other after meeting for the first time. I guess that this is the reason the models shoot GG together only once? Sometimes (rarely) the response between models is flat but mostly intriguing and sometimes very surprising (ref: Fotina and Violet). However each shoot is different and one is never sure what will happen. Not every shoot will please every customer but in the end it’s this very difference that makes Abbywinters the best site on the net.

          PS Are you still shooting down here in Aus? Am missing some of those good Aussie girls!

          Comment


            #6
            I'll stick with my previous answer...
            Originally posted by mrpinkeyes View Post
            I personally kinda liked the totally disorganised feel in a before videos more than the more structured feel of sit down chat type.
            Like
            Keilyn & Cleo's GG
            and
            Maise & Laura P
            or
            Blaire Bear & Joannie

            They put a smile on my dial....
            Question and answers is what's great about the solo video's. Not totally sure it's needed in the pre shoot G/G but does see to be here to stay.

            Comment


              #7
              I haven't done a GG since the policy change, but I liked the pre-shoots that we did for mine. It helps that I knew both of them beforehand I guess. I watched the new pre-shoot format for kylie and immie, and while I'm sure it didn't dampen the main event, I have to say I didn't like the format much. I wouldn't want to do it, personally, if it was my GG. I agree that it seems clinical. For me, it would turn me off a bit I think. It can be sexy to talk about what you like, but I would need it to be more organic than that for me. I can see how it may be useful for some models, like breaking the ice, but I hope that it is not required in all shoots (I haven't watched any pre shoots since the Kylie and Immie shoot so I don't know) because I'd like the flexibility to do my own thing.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by boomertoo View Post
                Possibly the worst example of this is between Mila and Sasha M which led to a shoot almost totally devoid of emotion and lacking any chemistry between the two.
                I didn't see this shoot this way at all. Mila is somewhat quiet and not outwardly demonstrative in her shoots, I wouldn't confuse that with a lack of emotion or passion. I find gentle shoots like this one very sexy. This was Mila's first shoot and first time with a woman, she certainly seemed to enjoy exploring. It seemed like Sasha was very much turned on by Mila.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hi Trebor

                  Thanks for letting me know your views. I think it’s so interesting that we both saw the shoot in totally different ways. It just reinforces my opinion that the diversity of models and the differences between shoots is what makes the site such a terrific place to visit.
                  PS Still don’t like the new pre-shoots though!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by boomertoo View Post
                    I think it’s so interesting that we both saw the shoot in totally different ways. It just reinforces my opinion that the diversity of models and the differences between shoots is what makes the site such a terrific place to visit.
                    This is one of my favorite parts of the site as well. The models are not only diverse but you also get a glimpse as to what their personalities are like.

                    The before shoots have always been hit or miss for me, regardless if it is one of the shooters or the models themselves doing the interviewing. Sometimes they can feel awkward, but sometimes they can also be playful and funny with genuine chemistry between the participants. I would agree with Garion that the before interviews often has very little to do with the chemistry between the two models in the shoot.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      HI Renae D

                      Thank you. It’s really nice to get an opinion from a model. It just seems to me that a staff interviewer appears to put the models more at ease prior to the actual shoot and also gives a chance for something of their personalities to emerge. I’m not sure this is true but it seems to be that way in the pre-shoots I’ve seen, including those with first time models

                      Personally I think it more interesting to see the models at ease and chatting together rather than simply conducting a Q&A. It just comes across as a very formal thing to be doing just prior to a situation that is as far from formal as could possibly be.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hi Frans

                        Sorry, but I forgot to answer your question! Unless it’s a surprise shoot such as Larissa M and Keilyn I think having the models together works better (for me at least) and it gives a chance to see the first interaction between them.

                        Perhaps you could use a good interviewer plus a camera operator? Am I right in thinking that maybe Masie can do both?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by renae_d View Post
                          It can be sexy to talk about what you like, but I would need it to be more organic than that for me. I can see how it may be useful for some models, like breaking the ice, but I hope that it is not required in all shoots (I haven't watched any pre shoots since the Kylie and Immie shoot so I don't know) because I'd like the flexibility to do my own thing.
                          I think those cards with questions are merely meant as pointers/hints, something you CAN talk about. Not checkboxes of items that must be discussed, though some of the questions might proof useful for the following shoot..

                          Originally posted by boomertoo View Post
                          Perhaps you could use a good interviewer plus a camera operator? Am I right in thinking that maybe Masie can do both?
                          Masie can do everything! She's pretty good at interviewing and talking overall, heh. Check out the podcast vids for (long) examples of that.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I think the current style of having the models interview each other works really well most of the time, although it's fun to have the shooters interview the girls before as well. Maybe you could mix it up a bit and alternate depending on what the models feel most comfortable with. I agree that the list of questions can seem a bit clinical sometimes, but I do think it leads to honest answers about what each girl likes that can add intensity to the shoot. When the girls really hit it off, with lots of smiles and laughter during the before shoot, watching them ask sexy questions can be a really lovely way of building the anticipation.

                            If the girls are maybe a bit more nervous, maybe it would be better to have Masie or Misha talk them through the before interview. Either way, I think the before-and-after videos are one of the very best things about AW. They ensure that the girls are not anonymous bodies having sex and disappearing from the site. Giving them a chance to express their nervousness and excitement makes clear that the girls are real, friendly, wonderful people. The videos one of the many ways AW shows its love and respect for the models, so keep it up.

                            I just want to agree with Trebor's assessment of Mila and Sasha's girl-girl, which is one of my favorite shoots. I fell head over heels for beautiful Mila in her first time with a girl, and I thought they had amazing emotion and chemistry as they gently explored each other. In the after video, they both talk about how important it was to learn in the before video what they liked, since they both had very different preferences. The before video itself was a bit subdued and, at 20 minutes, maybe overlong, but I'm so glad that they had the conversation. It helped create a shoot that for me is a AW classic.
                            Last edited by massfan3; 1 September 2014, 02:02 PM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Most of the time, when the girls interview each other, the result is boring. These discussions should be done off-camera.

                              I think that the pre-shoot videos should be fun and should show the preparation of the shoot.
                              They should show that the girls are impatient/nervous/relaxed... to do the shoot.
                              To do this, the shooters could ask some questions while the girls are getting ready (taking a shower, choosing their clothes, eating, going to the shoot location...).

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Massfan3 I think you might have the answer. Where the models are nervous and/or hesitant or where the Q&A is looking bland then an interviewer should step in and shoot it as a casual chat session. In any case I think around five minutes or so is plenty long enough for a pre-shoot. The Misha and Rosa M pre-shoot was short but the two obviously hit it off from the start and the following shoot demonstrated this very clearly! No interviewer needed there!

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by redlabka View Post
                                  Most of the time, when the girls interview each other, the result is boring. These discussions should be done off-camera.

                                  I think that the pre-shoot videos should be fun and should show the preparation of the shoot.
                                  They should show that the girls are impatient/nervous/relaxed... to do the shoot.
                                  To do this, the shooters could ask some questions while the girls are getting ready (taking a shower, choosing their clothes, eating, going to the shoot location...).
                                  It seems we are on the same page here... I always watched the before shoots back in the day (often my fav part) even if I didn't watch all of the actual shoot. Now I often just skim though the before shoot if I watch them at all.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by redlabka View Post
                                    Most of the time, when the girls interview each other, the result is boring. These discussions should be done off-camera.
                                    I think that's harsh although i agree some of those I've seem have gone on too long. The editing of these conversations is one of the main problems as we rarely see the reaction of the models to the provided answers. Also those cameras look very heavy which must be distracting for the models; it's certainly distracting for the viewer when the camera angle is slightly off the horizontal plain.

                                    [QUOTE=redlabka;419344 I think that the pre-shoot videos should be fun and should show the preparation of the shoot.
                                    They should show that the girls are impatient/nervous/relaxed... to do the shoot.
                                    To do this, the shooters could ask some questions while the girls are getting ready (taking a shower, choosing their clothes, eating, going to the shoot location...).[/QUOTE]

                                    I like these ideas, they should make the interviews more fluid. And bring back Sue-Ann as a model and interviewer, please, as that would make lots of people very happy. Appreciate the interviewing would involve a long commute to work each day but modeling would be less of challenge.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      I apologise for banging on about this subject but at this moment of posting I am in front of my computer and on my knees pleading for a stop to these awful pre-shoots!

                                      For the most part they are just so sterile and cold:
                                      “Hello. How are you today?”
                                      “I’m fine thank you, and how are you?”
                                      “I’m fine too. How many fingers do you like in your vagina?”
                                      “Two is good. How do you like your nipples licked?”

                                      As I said in my original post, they have all the excitement of a pre-op consultation between a doctor and a patient awaiting surgery: so calculated and technical.

                                      Yara, as an example: this wonderfully vibrant girl has spent around 45 minutes in Q&A with other models, going through this same dreary routine. Yet only one shoot, with Gala, provided a spark and that was because the two had got together privately (very privately it appears) a day or two earlier.

                                      Is it necessary to have a “policy” for these shoots? I understand that there are logistical problems in any organisation but surely there would be time enough beforehand to assess the models and thus set up a quick interview with them that provides both interest and fun. It was often done so well in the past, especially when one model was preparing for her first shoot, and I can’t see why this is not possible now.

                                      Mostly those earlier pre-shoots were fun to watch and a great lead-in to the main shoot. For me the new Q&A’s actually detract from what comes next. What do the new shoots offer over and above those of the past? There are so many good things about Abbywinters but this change is not one of them. It brings to mind the old adage: “If it ain’t broke it don’t need fixing”.

                                      OK, that’s my gripe for today. I need to get off my knees now and hope my pleas will be answered.
                                      Last edited by boomertoo; 14 October 2014, 02:47 AM.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        I for another think this approach is just plain stupid as well, and for me it just adds another reason to the growing list of problems that i have seen with AW that has turned me away from wanting to extend my current 1 month sub after next week.

                                        By far the best video i have watch so far from AW is the B/G shoot with Sasha and Ollie, love this couple, amazing bond and chemistry they share with each other, and Ollie has no problems performing for the camera, very evident by the firmness of his erection all the way thru their videos, unlike most of the guys in the other B/G videos i have seen so far, most of whom suffer with stage fright to the point where they cannot get, or maintain their erection during their videos, which then makes the videos boring and pointless to watch.

                                        My other gripes have been made public before, and i dont see things changing much, so regretfully i will not be renewing my subscription ofter next week.

                                        Cheers

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by derflapin View Post
                                          I for another think this approach is just plain stupid as well, and for me it just adds another reason to the growing list of problems that i have seen with AW that has turned me away from wanting to extend my current 1 month sub after next week.
                                          Kinda Harsh !...like throwing the baby out with the bathwater, wouldn't you say !


                                          May i share an idea:...This could all be shot with one fixed camera with a full body view.

                                          - The video would start with one of the two models walking on the set and introducing herself...Hi, i'm Yara...the next model then walks on Hi, I'm Rosa

                                          - They then face each other and take turns at removing each other's clothing ( one article at a time ) and the model that is removing the clothing will ask the other a question.

                                          - ....( questions to be asked, still to be determined )

                                          - They continue this until both models are completely nude...they then hold hands, give us a little spin-around/ pose and walk off ..

                                          - I think this would create a little more interplay/action/laughs/ an anything-can-happen sort of situation

                                          - J.O.E.W.H.O. .( Just One Entity With His Opinion )

                                          -
                                          Last edited by tjsunray; 14 October 2014, 11:59 PM.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            tjsunray, that's a cool idea, we'll definitely try that!

                                            Derflapin, thanks for the feedback. We're not a site that insists men are rock hard for the entire shoot. We work to be more naturalistic, as in the real world, some men - not you of course! - have trouble getting it up (or, keeping it up). We're working to show that if that happens, it's not the end - there's plenty a loving couple can do still.

                                            But, I appreciate that's not for you. Thanks for giving us a go.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Tjsunray, it’s an interesting idea but it still begs the question as to why the models need to ask these sort of questions of each other on camera.

                                              I just watched Masie and Marina, which is a backstage shoot but could well have been offered as a pre-shoot. This typifies exactly what I have clumsily tried to explain: it is just a lot of fun, a little bit “sexy” and leads into the main shoot perfectly. What could be better than that?
                                              Ref: http://www.abbywinters.com/girl_girl...e/video/clip_4

                                              Derflapin, I’m sorry that you’re leaving. Personally I think that in the search for professionalism Abbywinters has lost that little “spark” that was there up to the move overseas and I think these pre-shoots are an example of this. But the site is still a wonderful place to visit and I will be rejoining for a third time (or is that fourth? – I can’t quite remember as I had to change my username the last time because I used a different credit card).

                                              Garion, I’m back on my knees and pleading again!

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by boomertoo View Post
                                                Garion, I’m back on my knees and pleading again!
                                                Um, wait, what are you pleading for?

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by garionhall View Post
                                                  Originally posted by boomertoo View Post
                                                  Garion, I’m back on my knees and pleading again!
                                                  Um, wait, what are you pleading for?
                                                  For more free-format pre-shoot vids I think

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Hi Garion

                                                    Yes, Frans is right. I would love to see a return to the earlier format pre-shoots. This backstage one was absolutely perfect, with staff there keeping it light and informal and a little bit sexy. Ref: http://www.abbywinters.com/girl_girl...e/video/clip_4
                                                    The advantage of this type of shoot is that we also get a little "backstage" view in addition to the models preparing for their shoot all in the one video. I really do appreciate that you are always looking for ways to improve but, for me, I think you had these earlier pre-shoots just about right, especially when it came to first-time models.

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Is it necessary to have a “policy” for these shoots? I understand that there are logistical problems in any organisation but surely there would be time enough beforehand to assess the models and thus set up a quick interview with them that provides both interest and fun. It was often done so well in the past, especially when one model was preparing for her first shoot, and I can’t see why this is not possible now.

                                                      Mostly those earlier pre-shoots were fun to watch and a great lead-in to the main shoot. For me the new Q&A’s actually detract from what comes next. What do the new shoots offer over and above those of the past? There are so many good things about Abbywinters but this change is not one of them. It brings to mind the old adage: “If it ain’t broke don't fix it”.
                                                      I posted these couple of questions but didn't seem to get a clear answer. I would be interested to know what the philosophy was behind the change? I kmow in an earlier post that Garion mentioned getting "honest" answers but I'm still uncertain about such detailed information being necessary and so "coldly" requested. If the models are at ease and having fun, as in the shoot I referenced above, then that's good. If the model(s) appear a little nervous then that's OK too - after all that is all part of what has made AW such an interesting and unique site to visit.

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        The information exchanged is useful for the models involved I'd say. So the exchange isn't really the problem, it just doesn't (always) become a fun video by itself. Maybe you just need to tell the girls they don't to ask all the questions and not in exactly the way they're written down?

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          The information exchanged is useful for the models involved I'd say.
                                                          I can understand that this is something the models might want to sort out between themselves but the question remains: Is it absolutely necessary to do this on camera?
                                                          Yara and Gala got their answers in their own special way (!!) so the pre-shoot was fun to watch. So why not let the models find out about each other by themselves and then offer a free-format pre-shoot? I can only repeat what I said earlier: that I find the Q&A is so sterile, so calculated that it actually detracts from what follows.
                                                          I guess the only other question is whether the Q&A is here to stay or whether there will be any consideration for changes to this format?
                                                          Last edited by boomertoo; 19 October 2014, 02:27 AM.

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            The format of the Yara/Gala before-shot (here) is the same really. It goes a bit more free-flowing because both girls seem to know each other pretty well and are relaxed/smiling. Well, the sheep helps too but you can't put that in any format

                                                            The trick is how to get from a list of question to a more free flowing conversation. Ideas for that are probably welcomed!

                                                            If the pre-shoot vids detract that much from main-vid I'd recommend viewing in order; main, before->after or skip before-vids entirely.

                                                            Comment

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