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April 2015: Changing video formats

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    April 2015: Changing video formats

    We're looking at freshening up our video formats. Considerations include:

    • Flash (FLV), the format we currently use for streaming, is dated and inefficient (and does not work on iOS devices), we'll be providing MP4 via HTML5 for streaming, three streaming qualities
    • h.264 in an MP4 container is well established, and has been working well for us for the last five years
    • We'll continue providing MPG1 for backwards compatibility, even though it's horribly inefficient
    • We shoot in HD1080, so we can offer HD1080 files to customers (though we are not currently doing that)
    • We had not reviewed our video bitrates for six years or so, and it's time
    • We have customers with very slow, and very fast internet connections


    So, with that in mind, what we are proposing is illustrated in the graphic below (MPG1 and WMV are unchanged from the current). more background on what this all means can be found in our Video FAQ.

    At this stage, we cannot make sample files available of each type (due to limitations of our CMS), but that will be resolved shortly, and we will release one shoot with the full range of files (as described below) for everyone to comment on. Once we have settled on a path forwards, we'll go back and encode roughly the last two years of most scenes, and of course, all new scenes in the new formats.

    Note: picture is large/wide, scroll to the right for full view
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Frans; 27 March 2015, 06:42 PM. Reason: Added Video FAQ link, added flash/mp4 line

    #2
    What do you intend to do with streaming, the flash format might be dated but what else to use? I *like* streaming 'cos it allows me to instantly view a vid

    Also the HD1080 files will be huge, do you intend to offers those as multi-part downloads ?

    Comment


      #3
      I would like to say that I am very much looking forward to being able to download and view the videos in full 1080, most other porn sites offer this option and as you say that you shoot in 1080 then as a subscriber, I should be able to get the best quality available to me, I am also excited with the fact that I will be able to download 1080 versions of videos that I have already purchased in the past especially as one of my favourite scenes was the four girl orgy with Rosa M, Yara, Noa and Gretchen, this should look great in full HD.

      Comment


        #4
        I have a fast internet connection and I'd like to download content in 1080p

        Comment


          #5
          Frans, good point, I should have mentioned: we'll be providing MP4 via HTML5 for streaming, three streaming qualities.

          HD1080's will be large, max around 2Gb. No, they will be single-part files.

          Havijack and Siriuz, cool, we'll have what you want shortly!

          Comment


            #6
            Will you really encode to bitrate or use the constant quality/RF ? The latter when correctly tuned could result in smaller files with good quality none the less.

            And how will you show all those choices on the shootpages? It's quite a long download list

            Comment


              #7
              Frans, we'll use VBR for all files, so the bitrate is nominal not actual.

              On the shoot pages, users can select low, std, high and HD still, then below the animated video frame, the one or two download links display (ie, exactly how it does now).

              Comment


                #8
                I like the choice of formats.

                Originally posted by garionhall View Post
                Frans, we'll use VBR for all files, so the bitrate is nominal not actual.

                On the shoot pages, users can select low, std, high and HD still, then below the animated video frame, the one or two download links display (ie, exactly how it does now).
                I like the choice of formats. I usually choose .wmv (SQ), which looks fine on my devices, and I surely hope it stays, because it is a nice contrast between quality and moderate file size.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Malpert, as you can see in the chart I provided at the top of the page, WMV is staying. But, I am curious why you're not using MP4 - it's significantly better quality for a smaller file size? I'd say WMV is very poor in these regards.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I'd really appreciate to see full HD encodes, although 4K would even be more welcome... but I assume that's something for the future as you cannot currently shoot in 4K anyway.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Non technical feedback

                      We are not tech savvy. We like to stream the videos and we use a high speed connection. Most of what you are discussing here is over our heads. However, our input may still be valuable. We utilize both a Samsung notebook type laptop and our iPads. The iPad's have issues with anything older than a week for streaming...with an error code coming up saying we don't have the right format. Ok. We've heard that due to Apple licensing stuff this is just something we have to deal with.

                      However, in regard to our Samsung notebook with Google Chrome, it seems to stream all content well enough but has a tendency to freeze up while streaming...which can be very annoying. We weren't sure if it was our internet or Abby Winters, but we don't have this freezing problem on other sites, so in light of your post, we are hoping this issue might be remedied.

                      Again, not sure if this helps, but it's our feedback just the same. We certainly enjoy your site and have been Abby Winters members for several years now.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        1080p is an awesome update. Do you imagine updating to the new 4k format, once computer application technology jumps on board?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by garionhall View Post
                          Malpert, as you can see in the chart I provided at the top of the page, WMV is staying. But, I am curious why you're not using MP4 - it's significantly better quality for a smaller file size? I'd say WMV is very poor in these regards.
                          Current MP4-HQ is quite often higher filesize then the WMV. When you offer a SQ version in MP4, wmv may very well be used less and less

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I use a Chrombook and everything works fine.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Any format that avoids pixellation will be fine by me

                              Comment


                                #16
                                I'll be happy to see Flash go for viewing videos; my Android tablet hates it. Will it still be used for Playdates?

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Between pixelation and terrible playback I would opt for getting rid of wmv altogether. It's a bad format and I wish it was never used again.

                                  For flash streaming you should look into html5 which I believed was mentioned above.

                                  I've had no issues with mp4 and frankly I'm fine with that sticking around.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by sven_smith848 View Post
                                    For flash streaming you should look into html5 which I believed was mentioned above.
                                    Yep, "we'll be providing MP4 via HTML5 for streaming, three streaming qualities" I've added to first post to clarify.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      I agree with scrapping WMV... save that processor time and disk space

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Long time subscriber

                                        Please take into account a balance between resolution and bitrate. In
                                        some ways, bitrate is more important than resolution. Most players can
                                        play full screen (who wants distractions!) regardless of resolution, so
                                        bitrate (and encoding format) controls the quality of the image on the screen.

                                        Bitrate also controls download time, and for those of us who save videos,
                                        storage space.

                                        Right now AW has s a big gap in bitrate between the available formats.

                                        H264 is the lingua fraca of the internet now, and for the forseeable future.

                                        It seems to me the best thing is to provide each scene in a wide span of
                                        bitrates, perhaps 1,2, 4 and 8 megabits per second, with appropriate
                                        resolution.

                                        Me, I'd love to see 2mbps 860x484 like some other sites (with some overlap
                                        in models) have, since that seems a good compromise in terms of
                                        bitrate and resolution, but other subscribers may have different requirements.

                                        The key, I think, is to provide a wide variety of 'qualities' of videos, from
                                        low resolution low bitrate, through mid resolution mid bitate, to high res,
                                        high bitrate, so users can make a decision what fits their needs best.

                                        Thanks for listening

                                        Fred700

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Fred has a valid point. You can have a situation like an H264-HD video file that's said to have a resolution of 1080p but if the file was rendered out at an relatively low bitrate, what would be the point of it all because so much clarity is lost in a low-bitrate environment. I usually shoot in a range of 13 to 24 Mb/s and I hang around 20Mb/s in post-production in AfterEffects I usually stick with 13 to 20 Mb/s for rendering out 3D logos and applying visual effects to video clips. All that aside, I have tested different bitrates for clarity and I have seen that video clarity on video files rendered out in H264 starts to decline at much of anything below 12Mb/s. Start noticing pixelation and that's a loss I cannot afford with my post-productions.

                                          Also I can readily imagine there would be an remarkable difference in output quality in video files rendered out at CBR vs VBR. Too much opportunity for loss an a variable bitrate scenario, I would think.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            4K at 60fps! The only way to go

                                            Make 1080p, 720p and 480p options as well. All in H.264. Ditch the other formats.

                                            Really really really look at shooting at 60fps and offering 24 and 60fps versions of videos. I love the smooth motion and reality of 60fps for porn.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              I hardly ever view Streaming videos - they tend to load and buffer slowly for me, despite being on broadband (or what passes in America for broadband).
                                              If I want to "try out" a video, it's easier just to download the first part at LQ, then go back and download the rest in LQ or in higher quality if I like it.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                hi Honulover. There's no reason for videos to not work after one week on the iPad, and checking it from here, we do not see that. Please contact support@abbywinters.com, and they can help you out.

                                                Freezing videos on a lappy should also not happen, does it happen with all three streaming qualities?

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  We will continue using Flash for Playdates for now. What happens on your droid tablet with playdates?

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Sven_smith848, we make WMV available for people who cannot deal with the codec issues MP4 brings with it - MP4 needs either codecs, or a player different from Windows Media Player (that tend to install the codecs) - on many OS's. So it'll be staying for some time more.

                                                    As I posted above, we will be using a HTML5 player.

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Fred7000 View Post
                                                      Please take into account a balance between resolution and bitrate. In
                                                      some ways, bitrate is more important than resolution. Most players can
                                                      play full screen (who wants distractions!) regardless of resolution, so
                                                      bitrate (and encoding format) controls the quality of the image on the screen.

                                                      Bitrate also controls download time, and for those of us who save videos,
                                                      storage space.

                                                      Right now AW has s a big gap in bitrate between the available formats.

                                                      H264 is the lingua fraca of the internet now, and for the forseeable future.

                                                      It seems to me the best thing is to provide each scene in a wide span of
                                                      bitrates, perhaps 1,2, 4 and 8 megabits per second, with appropriate
                                                      resolution.

                                                      Me, I'd love to see 2mbps 860x484 like some other sites (with some overlap
                                                      in models) have, since that seems a good compromise in terms of
                                                      bitrate and resolution, but other subscribers may have different requirements.

                                                      The key, I think, is to provide a wide variety of 'qualities' of videos, from
                                                      low resolution low bitrate, through mid resolution mid bitate, to high res,
                                                      high bitrate, so users can make a decision what fits their needs best.
                                                      Fred, we're aware of these tradeoffs, and that's exactly what we considered with our proposal above. If you have some specific feedback regarding our posted proposal we'd like to hear it. Otherwise, we're on the same page!

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by connor View Post
                                                        I hardly ever view Streaming videos - they tend to load and buffer slowly for me, despite being on broadband (or what passes in America for broadband).
                                                        If I want to "try out" a video, it's easier just to download the first part at LQ, then go back and download the rest in LQ or in higher quality if I like it.
                                                        Conor, we'll be really interested to hear your experience with the new streaming formats we'll be providing soon. Does the current LQ (120k) not stream for you either?

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by decryption View Post
                                                          4K at 60fps! The only way to go
                                                          Ha. Well, that will not be happening here for some time. I posted on another thread about 4k recently.

                                                          Make 1080p, 720p and 480p options as well. All in H.264. Ditch the other formats.
                                                          That's basically what we're doing, but we will not be ditching other formats, to ensure we provide for people who prefer / require other formats.

                                                          Really really really look at shooting at 60fps and offering 24 and 60fps versions of videos. I love the smooth motion and reality of 60fps for porn.
                                                          We're working on it!

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by wolfgangbuster29 View Post
                                                            Fred has a valid point. You can have a situation like an H264-HD video file that's said to have a resolution of 1080p but if the file was rendered out at an relatively low bitrate, what would be the point of it all because so much clarity is lost in a low-bitrate environment. I usually shoot in a range of 13 to 24 Mb/s and I hang around 20Mb/s in post-production in AfterEffects I usually stick with 13 to 20 Mb/s for rendering out 3D logos and applying visual effects to video clips. All that aside, I have tested different bitrates for clarity and I have seen that video clarity on video files rendered out in H264 starts to decline at much of anything below 12Mb/s. Start noticing pixelation and that's a loss I cannot afford with my post-productions.
                                                            We agree. Do you have specific feedback on our proposal?

                                                            Comment

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