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Thread: I love sex

  1. #41
    Abby Winters
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    Hi guys,

    this is a really serious issue for us, so I'd like to keep it on topic for Australia. Might be a good idea to start a new thread on any separate topics. thanks.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abby View Post
    Specifically what does not work?
    The site just wouldn't load/respond, it hung for about 2 mins, so I gave up.

    Must've been the flood of traffic from angry members having a look

  3. #43
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    Back to the Orginal Post!

    Quote Originally Posted by Penelope View Post
    Hi all,

    I don't know where they find the time but certain groups within Australia are working hard to give our industry a rotten name. I think it's important we try and balance up the argument a bit. Check out this link for more info:

    http://www.ilovesex.org.au/action.html

    Unless I'm mistaken, Adam and Eve were Nude, and if God thought that was good enough for Him, who are we (or they) to argue? Discuss it with God! I suspect their attempts only reflect their own shame - And if we were created in His image, wouldn't it be Sacrilege to cover His creation, other than for protection from the elements?

    I'd submit my 'Action Form', but sadly, I'm not Australian, and we in the US have our own moralistic nuts trying to control our viewing habits, through the abuse of religion!

    Anyone who sees anything except Beauty from AbbyWinters.Com clearly doesn't recognize beauty at all; And I believe that far more evil comes from fear, ignorance, self-righteousness, and the attempt to impose their values opinions on others, than from looking at Beautiful Women (or Men) without clothes - Shall we also put clothing on the Venus de Milo, or Michelangelo's statue of David?

    The shame is in their hearts, not mine - There isn't one person at AW who I feel doesn't deserve my complete respect, Staff or Models, or even the Members, from what I've seen!

    Ali (climbing off her soapbox, and tossing her two cents into the cup)

    ps: Without sex, none of us (or them) would be here!

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad4alice View Post
    Unless I'm mistaken, Adam and Eve were Nude, and if God thought that was good enough for Him, who are we (or they) to argue? Discuss it with God! I suspect their attempts only reflect their own shame - And if we were created in His image, wouldn't it be Sacrilege to cover His creation, other than for protection from the elements?

    I'd submit my 'Action Form', but sadly, I'm not Australian, and we in the US have our own moralistic nuts trying to control our viewing habits, through the abuse of religion!

    Anyone who sees anything except Beauty from AbbyWinters.Com clearly doesn't recognize beauty at all; And I believe that far more evil comes from fear, ignorance, self-righteousness, and the attempt to impose their values opinions on others, than from looking at Beautiful Women (or Men) without clothes - Shall we also put clothing on the Venus de Milo, or Michelangelo's statue of David?

    The shame is in their hearts, not mine - There isn't one person at AW who I feel doesn't deserve my complete respect, Staff or Models, or even the Members, from what I've seen!

    Ali (climbing off her soapbox, and tossing her two cents into the cup)

    ps: Without sex, none of us (or them) would be here!
    That's probably why we don't allow religion to be discussed on the Boards, Ali. Coz some terrible things have been done in the name of religion and the place would be swamped in bigotry and negativity. Maybe we could talk about faith - that's a more uplifting topic altogether.
    pee x

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abby View Post
    yah, be great if everyone could do their bit, help make life easier for us here in Oz, by using that site to send a letter to the gummint. The Family First party have quite an advanced system for harnessing their folks and lobbying their local reps, so now the industry has they own system.
    AA07/24576 - CABSEC


    Dear Mr Swiftly (real name removed)


    The Premier has received your recent email concerning X-rated films.

    As the matter you have raised primarily concerns the administrations of
    the Attorney General, and Minister for Justice, the Hon J Hatzistergos,
    MLC, and the Minister for Police, and Minister for the Illawarra, the
    Hon D A Campbell, MP, the Premier has arranged to bring your approach to
    the Ministers’ attention.

    You may be sure that your comments will receive close consideration.


    Yours sincerely

    Jocelyn Mouawad
    Private Secretary

    I guess I will hear some more will keep you informed

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad4alice View Post

    Unless I'm mistaken, Adam and Eve were Nude, and if God thought that was good enough for Him, who are we (or they) to argue? Discuss it with God! I suspect their attempts only reflect their own shame - And if we were created in His image, wouldn't it be Sacrilege to cover His creation, other than for protection from the elements?

    I'd submit my 'Action Form', but sadly, I'm not Australian, and we in the US have our own moralistic nuts trying to control our viewing habits, through the abuse of religion!

    Anyone who sees anything except Beauty from AbbyWinters.Com clearly doesn't recognize beauty at all; And I believe that far more evil comes from fear, ignorance, self-righteousness, and the attempt to impose their values opinions on others, than from looking at Beautiful Women (or Men) without clothes - Shall we also put clothing on the Venus de Milo, or Michelangelo's statue of David?

    The shame is in their hearts, not mine - There isn't one person at AW who I feel doesn't deserve my complete respect, Staff or Models, or even the Members, from what I've seen!

    Ali (climbing off her soapbox, and tossing her two cents into the cup)

    ps: Without sex, none of us (or them) would be here!
    Now M Dear ,

    You must remember that shame is what Adam and Eve brought upon all of us by eating of the forbidden fruit (bloody good belgian beer!) and afterwards covered up our shame. So it is not such a good idea to qoute these trite fairy stories as a argument for nudity or love of natural sex (or unnatural if that is your ilk)

    Really we covered up our shame when women became property to be traded and to keep the other prying, piercing, perving eyes away from our property.

    I personally dont put faith! in any imaginary GOD to rule our affairs sexual or otherwise. In the end my arguments are if I am good enough to be used as cannon fodder in the most obscene of all mans acts WAR then i am good enough to be allowed my freedom of sexuallity with or without any gods or mans permission. Just leave me to it I LOVE IT!

    good post though just a rave from my part

  7. #47
    AW Model Melita's Avatar
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    How are you all going with the Letters and emails regarding this particular topic?! Hope you're keeping it up, we need all your support on this one! Thanks guys

    oxoxox

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melita View Post
    How are you all going with the Letters and emails regarding this particular topic?! Hope you're keeping it up, we need all your support on this one! Thanks guys

    oxoxox
    if you check out post #45 then i am infor a visit by the police comisioner and the local member .. when I first read it it looked a bit like a threat but now i am good with it just waiting did anyone else get such a reply??

  9. #49
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    i got the same letter, i assume it's a form response. i dont see anything about them visiting you - just they are forwarding your letter onto the appropriate people.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabrielle View Post
    i got the same letter, i assume it's a form response. i dont see anything about them visiting you - just they are forwarding your letter onto the appropriate people.
    we live in hope of a personal visit say do lunch and then we can use the familiarity to get a few things done around the neighbourhood

  11. #51
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    Let's talk about sex......

    Let's talk about sex baby
    Let's talk about you and me
    Let's talk about all the good things and
    the bad things that may be
    Let's talk about sex

    My member has been duly informed and, like swiftly, I hope he drops by for a chat.
    pee x

  12. #52
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    First Amendment Issue

    I want to again add to what the other guy said about this being a First Amendment issue in the US.

    This issue has been succesfully dealt with in the US on the grounds of Freedom of Speech. I think if you approach it the same way in Australia, you will have some success.

    The Anti-Porn establishment has been repeatedly defeated in the US...................Yes, there are parts of the South and the RURAL West in the US where they have an audience, but they can't make any headway in most of the populated areas, and that's what counts. And, their attempts to prevent stores from selling X-Rated magazines have had no effect on the wide open nature of the internet, where PORN is moving to anyways !

    The US Supreme Court has declared unconstitutional an attempt to restrict the viewing of Pornography and it was a very decisive decision at that................the anti-porn coalitions here in the US have never really recovered from that decision. It was a decisive blow !

  13. #53
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    As an ex-Aussie now living in Asia, it really bugs me that the Australian government has this crap attitude. Nobody is advocating child porn. I always thought it was dumb that the best that they could offer on Foxtel was some crap censored stuff that was rubbish. It's OK to do so many things in Australia that are wrong. If I want to look at Porn and I am an adult so what. I am not hurting anyone.

  14. #54
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    I'm not from your part of the world, but I fired one off anyway. Have toyed with the thought of moving there more than once and I don't want them banning porn before I get there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsaxon View Post
    I want to again add to what the other guy said about this being a First Amendment issue in the US.

    This issue has been succesfully dealt with in the US on the grounds of Freedom of Speech. I think if you approach it the same way in Australia, you will have some success....
    Oh, really? Look what happened when Janet Jackson had her nipple exposed on national TV! You'd think the end of the world was upon us! Fines! Apologies! Endless screeching on talk shows! All because of a 1/2 second glimpse of a 40-yr-old female nipple!

    In another thread here two Brits are arguing about how come we don't see full-on nudity any more on TV. Have we here in the US ever seen full-on nudity on TV? Virtually every country in Europe and UK has a more relaxed attitude toward nudity than we do.

    And even with regards to freedom to look at porn, we're teetering on the brink here... just one or two more conservative justices on our Supreme Court could tilt things the other way.

    I don't think the fact that we currently are allowed... allowed!... to look at porn is anything to crow about. We've got the same sort of anti-porn crusaders that the Aussies have, and they've had their share of success!

  16. #56
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    Agree with you however I think it's the Liberals that will cause the court problems. Excuse the possibly sexist (appearing) remark that follows. THERE ISN'T AN OVER 40 YR OLD, HOMEMAKING WOMAN THAT COULDN'T DO A BETTER JOB OF RUNNING THIS COUNTRY OR PERHAPS MOST COUNTRIES! he grovels in apology Lets put Dancer in control.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penelope View Post
    Good work people! This is serious business. We're being censored out of existence! Please do keep those letters coming. I want my porn legal and easily accessible god dammit.


    I agree and have sent in my opinion.

    I changed my submission considerably from the proposed template provided.

    I included access through the internet specifically rather than the suggested "Adult shops" only. I'd suggest that any win against x-rated material by our opposition would be over the internet first. Especially considering the current/recently released campaign by the Australian Government on protecting children on the internet (you've seen the ads on tv??). Of cause I agree with protecting children on the internet but it does not have to be at the expense of responsible adults and a reduction in their freedom.



    I also included the fact that Government Officials would be most at risk. Lets be honest. People in power are no different to anyone else in our community. Some are gay, some like x-rated material, some have fetishes, some are against pornograph (nudism even !!), etc, etc.. they make up a large part of the demographics in which we draw the findings of surveys and statistics. Already we see officials being forced to resign from their positions based on alligations alone, without including further x-rated material restrictions. Regardless of guilt, the community perceptions are enough to effect their standing. By adding x-rated material constraints they are more suspetible than I am of being victimised. Sadly I admit, they won't understand this because all they are interested in is votes.



    Agree with you however I think it's the Liberals that will cause the court problems. Excuse the possibly sexist (appearing) remark that follows. THERE ISN'T AN OVER 40 YR OLD, HOMEMAKING WOMAN THAT COULDN'T DO A BETTER JOB OF RUNNING THIS COUNTRY OR PERHAPS MOST COUNTRIES! he grovels in apology Lets put Dancer in control.


    Sorry I don't agree. The person you refer of is far to kind, honest, understanding and busy to do the job.
    Having said that, I'm sure first generation politicians start off the same. It's only after a period of time they turn bad like a prawn in the sun.

    Cheers,
    Rickdownunder

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    Hi everyone. Long time listener, first time poster.

    I don't think we should start thinking the sky is going to fall in any time soon in terms of sites like AW being further restricted or outlawed. Take for example the public response to recent moves by lobby groups to get 'Californication' taken off air. An overwhelming majority of responses from the public was "if you don't like it, don't watch it." As a nation, we are very particular about our right to protect what we can and can't do in the privacy of our own homes and the right of the government to dictate what's acceptable and what's not. Attempts to introduce a national ID card have always been met with strong objection and calls for Big Brother to butt out of our private lives.

    The hypocrisy of our classification system is astounding. Consider that films like 'Saw' and 'Hostel' can get mainstream release, the most violent video games are freely available, and the uncut version of 'Closer' by Nine Inch Nails can air on music video channels, but legitimate French cinema that happens to feature consensual adult sex is banned on sight.

    Governments are more interested in being seen to something as opposed to actually doing something, because enforcing any sort of law that restricted sites like AW is going to take a lot of time, money and resources that they could better spend on pork barrelling at elections. That's why it's easy to ban the French film or stop Foxtel airing really racy stuff on the Adult Channel, because it involves next to no work for them and costs nothing because the regulations are already in place.

    Police the world over are worried they're losing the battle against cybercrime, and in particular the sale and trade of child abuse and exploitation material. Even adding more investigators is failing to stem the growing tide that is out there in the back alleys of the net, and the technology people are using to try and stay away from being caught means our police are always playing 'catch up'. They don't want to waste their time Googling AW to keep an eye on two adult women having consensual sex when there is an even more important battle to be fought stamping out child abuse on the net, and I think our governments recognise that as well.

    While I think the status quo will remain - that is, keep being seen to do something in regulating the legitimate adult industry - they will rightly continue to focus on catching the real bad guys who are just as detested by AW and friends.
    Keep in mind however that how you vote in the federal election, especially in the Senate, will have a major impact on our lawmakers attitudes towards the adult industry. Some minor parties want to see a blanket ban, and the way their preferences flow to and from the Conservative parties will determine whether the religious lobby has a major influence on how our laws are made up until the year 2010. Look very closely at everyone's policies and where their prefrences are being directed, and then vote accordingly.

    I'm a bit of a political junkie and would be happy to explain it further if need be!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaycee View Post
    Here in the US we have a separation of church and state law
    Urban (and rural) myth.
    No such law.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaycee View Post
    political system pays little attention to the bible thumpers
    Which of the many political systems? Thump sympathizers predominate in many.
    Failure to resist is to acquiesce.

    Freedom From Religion Foundation is strong, doing great resistance work in the above-mentioned separation arena.

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    Thank you. This is a greatly mis-understood concept. Have sent the amendment to 50, maybe 100 people. Am sick as hell of SPINS for personal benefit! I'd show clause but it would most likely be considered too Political. Google it!

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    There's fear behind these attacks

    I am a male; thus I can’t speak on behalf of females- I offer this as just my perception:

    I don’t post much; but I am passionately in favor of sites like AW; I love it…I find it very beautiful.. so I want to chime in on this..

    Do send the emails; but take these attacks as a compliment. It reflects on the success that AW and similar sites have achieved. This is also due to fear due to a shift of power that’s happening right now that may threaten old paternalistic values.

    It’s the fear that the young female is now claiming power; she’s becoming wickedly confident, she’s intelligent, aggressive and fearless and thinks of herself enough not to yield to or put up with these outdated values. The female is mighty in that she is now asserting herself and is beginning to roar so to speak and is making her mark.

    This does refer to AW’s success. Despite their disapproval, the growth and Sydney expansion of AW is a humiliating loss for these attackers who may soon realize that not only are they doing porn (which they hate); but that the females in this female led site are doing porn their way; doing very well at it; empowering models self esteem one at a time; and are becoming too strong to be controlled.

    ..and continued success will only dishearten them, and take their will to fight out of them bit by bit.

    Here is an excerpt from a poem the from the Vagina Monologues.
    Three girls were suspended in the US for simply saying the word "vagina" in unison the last line during an open mic session at their school. This is just an example of how petty they can get. Though thats the reason that was given. Or was it really the context of the line that bragged: "I declare these streets, any streets my vagina's country" ? Who knows. But this is also an example of how strong willed, and fearless girls have become in refusing to omit this line from their speech or using a substitution for the word 'vagina'.


    My short skirt, believe it or not has nothing to do with you. My short skirt is about discovering the power of my lower calves about cool autumn air traveling up my inner thighs about allowing everything I see or pass or feel to live inside. My short skirt is not proof that I am stupid or undecided or a malleable little girl. My short skirt is my defiance I will not let you make me afraid My short skirt is not showing off this is who I am before you made me cover it or tone it down. Get used to it. My short skirt is happiness I can feel myself on the ground. I am here. I am hot. My short skirt is a liberation flag in the women's army I declare these streets, any streets my vagina's country.
    Last edited by blown88; 4th November 2007 at 04:20 PM. Reason: comment addition

  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by blown88 View Post
    It’s the fear that the young female is now claiming power; she’s becoming wickedly confident, she’s intelligent, aggressive and fearless and thinks of herself enough not to yield to or put up with these outdated values. The female is mighty in that she is now asserting herself and is beginning to roar so to speak and is making her mark.

    This does refer to AW’s success. Despite their disapproval, the growth and Sydney expansion of AW is a humiliating loss for these attackers who may soon realize that not only are they doing porn (which they hate); but that the females in this female led site are doing porn their way; doing very well at it; empowering models self esteem one at a time; and are becoming too strong to be controlled.

    ..and continued success will only dishearten them, and take their will to fight out of them bit by bit.
    Do you recon' ?
    Good to see you love AW so much but it's a bit far fetched to think that it should be so directly linked to AW success.
    I would have expected that it was all x-rated material in Australia, regardless of source that was being targeted by these "attackers". could be interesting though, if we were to draw attention specifically towards AW as a feminist political campaign for female pornography specifically in Australia. lol. I'd suggest to steer clear of that.

    Having said that, I am new to the site and pretty much just spend time admiring the models without focussing on any underlying agendas. Is there any?

    You've got me thinking though. I couldn't find who's responsible for the "I Love Sex" site and any affiliates. Any ideas?

    It does seem pretty clear from the information provided on the site that it's more about shops and not the internet. I re-emphasis, it's the internet that will be the first to be considered by any "attackers". (in my opinion)

    Rickdownunder

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickdownunder View Post
    Do you recon' ?
    Good to see you love AW so much but it's a bit far fetched to think that it should be so directly linked to AW success.
    I would have expected that it was all x-rated material in Australia, regardless of source that was being targeted by these "attackers". could be interesting though, if we were to draw attention specifically towards AW as a feminist political campaign for female pornography specifically in Australia. lol. I'd suggest to steer clear of that.

    Having said that, I am new to the site and pretty much just spend time admiring the models without focussing on any underlying agendas. Is there any?

    You've got me thinking though. I couldn't find who's responsible for the "I Love Sex" site and any affiliates. Any ideas?

    It does seem pretty clear from the information provided on the site that it's more about shops and not the internet. I re-emphasis, it's the internet that will be the first to be considered by any "attackers". (in my opinion)

    Rickdownunder
    I'll have to get back with on you this. I am going out of town so it will be a couple of days. I have like ten minutes right now but I'm not very good at posting something that quick. So check back in a few days.

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    the flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickdownunder View Post
    Do you recon' ?
    Good to see you love AW so much but it's a bit far fetched to think that it should be so directly linked to AW success.
    I would have expected that it was all x-rated material in Australia, regardless of source that was being targeted by these "attackers". could be interesting though, if we were to draw attention specifically towards AW as a feminist political campaign for female pornography specifically in Australia. lol. I'd suggest to steer clear of that.

    Having said that, I am new to the site and pretty much just spend time admiring the models without focussing on any underlying agendas. Is there any?

    You've got me thinking though. I couldn't find who's responsible for the "I Love Sex" site and any affiliates. Any ideas?

    It does seem pretty clear from the information provided on the site that it's more about shops and not the internet. I re-emphasis, it's the internet that will be the first to be considered by any "attackers". (in my opinion)

    Rickdownunder
    My rebill is about to bounce on me so I better post now..

    But try the full website name in a search engine box with “domain name ownership”. Someone owns that domain name and that data is usually available to the public to let those interested in making an offer to buy the domain name. This may also bring up articles with information as well.

    I really don’t know what’s going on in Australia as far as censorship- I live in the USA; and am not familiar with all thats happening down there.

    Now what is the profile the attackers?

    If these are mostly people in their 40’s and 50’s; then that may say a lot. They simply grew up in a time when women were expected to fulfill weaker roles; maybe stay at home while the man makes the living. Internet porn wasn’t around when they grew up; nor really were sex shops to the extent as they are now at least...

    So of course all of this appears as wicked heresy and something that warrants an attack.

    Aw's success is not the only reason, of course..for this.

    AW is just one of the more aggressive wings of the greater battle to slay this metaphoric beast of misconception armed with cheeky shots, hot models, lesbian sex, always depicting the female form in a flattering light. As far as AW the websites showing her might in her advance; and planting her lesbian flag in new territory is humiliating to them- -whether this be the AW websites agenda- I don’t know; but showing them up has got to be fun for them.
    Last edited by blown88; 10th November 2007 at 04:55 AM. Reason: correction made

  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickdownunder View Post
    You've got me thinking though. I couldn't find who's responsible for the "I Love Sex" site and any affiliates. Any ideas?
    It's produced by the Adult Industry Association, Eros (of which we are a member).

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    metaphor

    one last comment for me on this...from reading the news … I hope that dvd sales in Australia will remain legal.

    The pussy is an important metaphor for this that goes beyond porn because the pussy embodies what is feminine: she is soft as petals, delicate and beautiful to the sight---yet her beauty may throw off some in that she is also tough as steel. She’s not fragile; she’s a sword; a lioness inside the skirt, jeans, shorts, panties; her intricate folds displayed proudly on this site like she’s mighty; the aggressor; like she’s going to take second to no one. Each pic does convey a message both nude and clothed.

    These petals are galvanized by the sum of her owners intellect, determination and will. Making her owner proud to be able to fulfill her goals on this planet with her feminine curves and with such grace in between her legs.

    Yes, Venus is rising in this patriarchal society causing some battles; yet the culture will be feminized and bring facets with it that flatters all thats feminine such as lesbianism into a more prominent profile; just as patriarchy brought facets with it that degraded what’s feminine.

    …as there are so many young strong determined females that know what they want; and are going to kick butt to get it; and give pussy, and all else that’s feminine a good name.

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    I am sorry you have a group that is trying to impose their will on others. Really an issue of freedom as much as anything else.

    And this particular suppression isn't going to work. Like it or not, Porn is a huge industry. Worldwide, almost US$100 billion in sales (2 billion is AUS). Trying to ban it just forces it underground, where it will just line the pockets of organized crime (like, the prohibition in the US - stupid idea that caused far more harm than good). And although children should and must be protected from exposure to porn (especially overexposure), saying that banning porn is "for the children" is disingenuous at best and a flat out lie at worst.

    Actually the ultra religious attempt to bury the concept of sex from the public view is something else I feel causes more harm than good. I am not saying that we should be making love on the street corners, but I feel that an open and honest acknowledgement of the "facts of life", along with what is natural and what isn't, would reduce the stress in pressure of sex in the first place (although this may be more applicable in the US, where we are somewhat backward in that regard).

    Would have made my life a lot less horrific.

    Anyway, good luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickMZ View Post
    Actually the ultra religious attempt to bury the concept of sex from the public view is something else I feel causes more harm than good. I am not saying that we should be making love on the street corners, but I feel that an open and honest acknowledgement of the "facts of life", along with what is natural and what isn't, would reduce the stress in pressure of sex in the first place (although this may be more applicable in the US, where we are somewhat backward in that regard).
    Let me first say welcome to the boards Nickmz I agree with what you are saying.

    My mother-in-law ask my middle son when he was very young if he knew where he came from and he replied "Yeah grandma I came from mommies vagina" and she was floored that he even knew what a vagina was. You see when my three boys first asked about sex and where they come from, my wife told them using the correct terms and not slang. We also allowed them to watch animals and humans give birth. So my kids saw all that a woman has at a very early age. My mother-in-law thought we were crazy and that he kids were to young to learn such things. The reason we did this was because on my sister. When my sister came to visit for a couple of weeks (about 13 yrs old) she had her first period and thought she was bleeding to death and my wife had to explain the monthlies. My mom was old fashioned and didn't know how to tell her.

    I did not want my kids to be ignorant about sex. So we told them what they wanted to know properly instead of hearing from other kids.

    Well that's my 2 cents worth.

    Cheers JC

  29. #69
    Wields limited power
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    Apr 2006
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    The Axiom hovering over the Netherlands
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    I suppose today's election is interesting with regard to this thread? But the Aussie election system is a tiiiiny bit complicated (with swapping preferences or such, sounds like trading seats). So... anybody able to tell me what a good/bad result would be for AW as a company? Does Federal/state have much to say over National?

    I reckon keeping that Familly First party out of both Senate and House-of-Reps would be good for business as usual

  30. #70
    AW Model Posting tornado gabrielle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    992
    the problem with trying to ban something that human beings find natural and attractive (like sex, and even seeking altered consciousness through drugs) is that it just creates a black market, and from there comes many more problems than you otherwise would have had if it were legal, standardised and safe. not to mention that as soon as you're 'not allowed' to have something, you just want it more.

  31. #71
    Newbie
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    Oct 2007
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    We are pulling for ya here in the States.

    While your at it you should work on the Bill of Rights issue as well. I'm going to do a little research on this 4 ya.

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