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    Open letter for the models

    Dear Models of Abby Winters,

    I'm writing to tell you how beautiful I think you are. Each and every one of you has your own unique kind of beauty, and I am so very happy you are willing to share that here. I know people who would try to make you ashamed for posing nude and sharing yourselves this way. Mostly they are feminists who believe that by allowing yourself to be sexually objectified, you cause all kinds of evil in the word, from wrecking marriages to rape.

    It is my hope that you never allow anyone to create shame in you for sharing your beauty here. You will always have the right to hand it back because it truly does not belong to you! There is nothing wrong with what you do here or who you are.

    I've been struggling lately with a response to a "sex-positive anti-porn feminist" who thinks this way. I doubt she'll ever read it but maybe it's not all that important. It was useful for me to think these things through better. If any of you ever need a good sedative to help fall asleep and like philosophy, feel free to have at what I wrote here. I think and write too much sometimes as you can see.

    Since this is a forum to talk about what "what works and does not" for the porn of Abby Winters, I'm going to share in greater detail what I like about this site and why. My manifesto is in a place where my family can reach it, and there are some things it is probably better I don't blog about publicly in deference to them.

    Before I say what is particularly valuable to me about Abby Winters, I'm going to clarify something. I believe that the feminists do have a certain point in their arguments. There is much pornography that is harmful to men and women alike. It creates poor images of what people are really like and what sexuality is about. In fact, I'd say that the vast majority of mainstream porn that is produced and consumed is not very worthwhile or downright harmful. Misogyny creates bad porn which creates more misogyny in a vicious cycle. I see sites like Abby Winters bucking that trend. The people opposing all porn outright will probably not stop this trend, but you just might. My general experience in life is that you can't change big things by opposing them (you get run over). The only way to change big things is often to get inside and give it little nudges in the right direction, slowly changing course until you get where you need to be.

    I appreciate that the models of Abby Winters come in nearly every imaginable color, shape and form that is fairly representative of the women I meet day-to-day. You all have your scars and quirks as do I. None of us is perfect and too many girls grow up thinking they need to starve themselves in order to attain the unattainable form that was only created to sell them a lot of worthless crap. I have a friend who is so obsessed with her appearance and acne scars that she is destroying her own face trying to change it. The reality is that no one sees those scars but her and so she is literally tearing herself apart for nothing. If reason doesn't work in this case, what will? It's tragic and even when I was in a relationship with her and gave her the affirmation she needed it was still never enough.

    The wide variety of activities in the shoots is nice. I appreciate that I've occasionally seen models with tampons (which is a little bit of a turn-off that I still like for other reasons), as well as models peeing (also not a huge turn-on particularly but since it involves nudity is still fun for me to see) or doing other silly things with your bodies and just enjoying the shoot. Sometimes I think of you as women (which you clearly are) and sometimes I think of you as girls because I can see the inner child in your playfulness. And please understand that I'm not the least bit interested in young girls sexually- my tastes on porn steer me clear of women who shave themselves completely because of this in part. I respect your right to do so however and can certainly understand many reasons why you might want to, and why other adults might appreciate it too without it indicating pedophilia either. I'll admit that at times shaving can be hot, but it just isn't a primary interest for me. I still wouldn't appreciate the site as much if there weren't shaved women here either to be honest. With each new model it leads me to wonder before I find out, and there's a certain pleasure in the discovery at times.

    One of my absolute favorite features of the site has been videos of the women who give us virtual tours of their bodies and talk about what they like, dislike and why. I enjoy hearing stories about what turns you on and other exciting escapades that you relate. I really value the women who are willing to share their orgasms and aren't afraid of their sexual power but who use it for our good. I also know that every model has her own limits of comfort and I respect that and appreciate very much whatever you have to contribute.

    I hope each of you has a long and wonderful life full of much love and hot sex with partners who challenge you to grow with them. A danger in living too long is accumulating regrets and I do hope that your contributions here will never become one of them - the fewer regrets you accumulate over the long run the better. Perhaps you'll find yourself some day many years from now in a much more worn and tired body that doesn't feel as sexy any more, and I hope that you can look back still and appreciate what you did and experience some of that pride and happiness in your sex again. I hope you never grow too old to enjoy your sexual nature, or that if you do, you won't be aware of missing it because you'll have other joys to take its place.

    By the way, I don't know if you've seen much news of this over there, but here in the U.S. there's a porn star who is running for government. I've not seen her work, but I admit from that small interview, I rather like her spirit and wish I lived in that district so I could vote for her.

    Mike
    Last edited by oroboros; 15 November 2009, 07:19 AM.

    #2
    Well said, Mike. And I would add that participation of the models in the forum is one of my favorite things. The thoughts of such spunky women as Susie, Giselle, Sue-Ann, and, more recently, Katherine F, Jette, Milena and Flic, are enchanting and provocative. Keep up the great work.

    Comment


      #3
      More on objectification

      I've been going through a bit of a personal transformation for the last few months. I can't stop writing because I can't stop thinking and the two are intertwined deeply for me. Though I have a blog and tend to do a lot of this thinking-writing there, it is just too public as I mentioned. I send my family links to other stuff there from time to time. Some of the things I've already published are sure to be provocative if they are ever read by my mother or my sisters.

      So I'm observing my own internal process of how I composed that piece on objectification as a rebuttal to an anti-porn feminist, I was also aware that it could still be read by anyone I know personally - my employer (or future prospective employers), my customers, my parents, sisters, etc.

      This has been a highly useful exercise now to focus on this in particular: how would I feel about having that piece read by my mother (who is a conservative Christian who I'm certain doesn't like porn). I talk just briefly about my own use of porn and even real women for sexual gratification, though not in detail and not in an offensive way (I hope). The density of my writing is something of a defense too...

      It is a very tiny personal exposure compared to what the women who model for Abby Winters do of their sexual beings. I also have a reason to believe my friends and family will read that blog eventually, while the women who pose here almost certainly don't want to be "busted". I truly understand and respect that issue especially where it concerns family, employers, customers etc.

      There is a very common argument against porn that goes: How would you feel if you knew that other men were jerking off to pictures of your mother or sisters. The argument itself is meant to summon up our darkest taboos against incest by making us think of our family members in a sexual way. The people making the argument may want to scare us away from porn completely by associating it with incest, though I doubt that argument sways many who hear it because they have rationalizations around it or just ignore it completely. As I see it, every woman is someone's mother, sister or daughter and if we decided it was never OK for men to sexually objectify them, we'd all probably have to stop having hetero sex. I don't think men can have intercourse without objectification.

      I'm going to answer that feminist question honestly even if I suspect ill intent in the people who pose it (i.e. SHAME on you for enjoying your sexuality!). My family members are all sexual beings just like me, and they are just as likely to be objectified or to objectify someone else for gratification. If it is done consensually (say, one of my sisters chooses to pose here) and it makes them happy, then I'd support their rights on that principle alone. But I absolutely would not want to see the photo/video shoot itself, and would want to filter my total experience here so that I wouldn't ever see her photos accidentally. There is no need to provide logical justification for that need - it is self-evident that siblings shouldn't sexually objectify each other. I suspect there's a technical way that could be accomplished (a "hide this model" option). As time goes on and the women who pose on this site have children who mature to teenage boys this may become more of an issue than it is today. There may be other implications to being able to "blacklist" a model that I can't see also.

      I read all of the content at http://models.abbywinters.com yesterday. I really appreciate the way that the models can choose the level of their exposure and hence, probable sexual objectification. I imagine that the decision for many of them who do not pose more explicitly goes to the issues of being busted by family members. Shooting with closed legs indicates a kind of modesty that many have need for, and you can make the argument it is a more "tasteful" or artistic kind of pornography than the rest. I put tasteful in quotes there because it is just so relative, but I'm also pretty aware of larger cultural norms.

      Of course, some women just aren't comfortable spreading their legs because they don't want to be objectified to that degree and I respect that too. If they pose here at all, they are surely aware of how men will be viewing them anyway, but can do so while still honoring their own boundaries and limiting the degree of objectification.

      Just taking your clothes off for a camera is a tremendous act of bravery. Going further than that and spreading your legs to display your raw sexuality is another act of courage that I also admire.

      I've been looking around for a video that will explicitly show something that I described in my manifesto. I know that this will not be a depiction of how women "normally" masturbate, but I believe that it would be a worthwhile experiment nonetheless. In this video the woman will address her audience directly and discuss her actions as honestly as she can. She will claim her sexual power and our common human right to sexual self-gratification while addressing the questions of consent in the act of objectification. She will then claim her right to be objectified and to become aroused by the act. She will continue to also assert her humanity as she invites her viewers to share her orgasm, possibly asking them to withhold theirs if they can and cum with her. I'm not necessarily looking for a monologue throughout the "act" (though I think this could be done well too) or even hearing OH GOD I'M CUMMING. I'm not making this request for my own gratification at all (though I would absolutely do so anyway with the model). I'll probably contribute something to the dildo drive regardless, but if there's a model who wants to try this out and has her eyes on a particular toy, let me know and maybe we can work something out.

      I do believe that most of the masturbation videos here already demonstrate this assertion of feminine sexual power and our right to self-gratification in a powerful visual way. I think that most of the men here understand this too. But some might actually benefit from hearing it and being given even more explicit permission than they've ever been given in their lives. So many of us have been told in our childhood that it was wrong to touch ourselves and wrong to look at naked women. The body is "fallen" and impure, and I believe those kinds of teachings do damage to our sexual being (and by extension, our emotional and spiritual beings). Good pornography can help heal some of that damage and so this suggestion for a special kind of "unnatural" masturbation video would be the kind of thing I'd like to ultimately see placed under the "Extras -> Instructional Videos menu". I'd call it something like "How to enjoy porn without degrading women or yourself".

      Last night while browsing public lists I noticed one composed entirely of close-ups shots of pussy. There wasn't a single face visible. While I always appreciate the close-up shots, I only really enjoy them when the model's face is also visible somewhere in the context (either in the same shot or before / after in the series). If she doesn't appear to be happy or enjoying herself as she spreads her legs, I can't enjoy masturbating to her photos. Here I have a degree of empathy with an inanimate object which is a digital photo. The reason I feel empathy is because the object represents a real human being and I recognize her as such.

      In fact, the greater my identification with the feelings of the model whose pictures/video I'm masturbating too, the more physical pleasure I get and the more love I experience, not just for the model, but for all my fellow humans as animal/sexual/spiritual "objects". In some videos as the woman is beginning to expose her raw sex you can sense a combination of fear and excitement in the act. Embarrassment becomes arousal which becomes embarrassment in a feedback loop that can really build and is obvious. When I see a model's body quivering, or maybe a blush or goosebumps, I actually get a kind of contact high from her adrenaline rush in committing such a courageous act.

      Mike
      Last edited by oroboros; 17 November 2009, 05:37 PM. Reason: Typos

      Comment


        #4
        Mike, I enjoy reading your thoughts. Sue-Ann has an intimate moments video in which she talks her way through it. It's not quite as you described, but intriguing nonetheless. If you broaden your search to I Feel Myself and Beautiful Agony, you will certainly be exposed to more intimate information than you could have ever imagined. The "confessions" in BA are captivating, and Gala's video diary provides an unmatched look at one female's journey. It's nice to welcome another male who appreciates the depth of experience gleaned from AW, IFM and BA beyond just self-gratification. I just wish I was this well-informed many, many years ago. Further, reading the forum postings of Sue Ann, Giselle, Paula, Katherine and many others gives an insight into the beauty and humanity within.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks aggie. I know it's a long journey for us from boyhood to manhood, and so many never make it.

          I had an IFM subscription for a while and appreciated it (also ISM). There's so much great content here that it is hard to justify, time and money-wise, more than one subscription.

          Comment


            #6
            You might also want to take a look at this video of Miranda.

            Comment


              #7
              Hi Mike,

              Firstly, thank you! Thank you for the compliments and for your appreciation.
              But I have some comments and I hope that you find them in the spirit of discussion rather than criticism. I agree with many of the things you've outline here but as I've just finished a Bachelor of Arts majoring in Gender Studies you can gather that I'd have a few comments! LOL


              Originally posted by oroboros View Post
              I know people who would try to make you ashamed for posing nude and sharing yourselves this way. Mostly they are feminists who believe that by allowing yourself to be sexually objectified, you cause all kinds of evil in the word, from wrecking marriages to rape.
              I'm actually a feminist!!! Let's not attack feminists... they already have a big enough battle! Feminism is not a dogma, and many, many, many feminists have no problem with non-violent consensual pornography.

              If you replaced the word 'feminists' with the word 'religious conservatives' then I think you would be on more of the right track! I'm not attacking people with faith (faith is a personal choice and one that I believe people have the right to make) but I truly believe that religion has more to answer for in regards to the sexual shame in our society (and clearly there is a difference between religious fanatics and those with faith - my family is religious so rest assured I'm not attempting to pick fights with anyone!)

              Originally posted by oroboros View Post
              If any of you ever need a good sedative to help fall asleep and like philosophy, feel free to have at what I wrote here. I think and write too much sometimes as you can see.
              Well maybe I'll read this when I'm trying to go to sleep tonight!

              Originally posted by oroboros View Post
              I believe that the feminists do have a certain point in their arguments.
              I agree with what your saying but it isn't helpful to talk about 'the feminists' as if they are a monolithic group that all think the same way. I'm a feminist and I work in porn. All feminists have different ideas about how we can attain social equality, but it doesn't always mean banning razors and becoming lesbians, no more than it means censoring pornography.

              Originally posted by oroboros View Post
              The only way to change big things is often to get inside and give it little nudges in the right direction, slowly changing course until you get where you need to be.
              I agree with you wholeheartedly!

              Originally posted by oroboros View Post
              I appreciate that the models of Abby Winters come in nearly every imaginable color, shape and form that is fairly representative of the women I meet day-to-day.
              and isn't it a welcome relief! *phew!*


              But it is true that there are some feminists (call them 'anti-porn' or 'radical' feminists if you will) believe that all of women's problems stem from pornography. Clearly if pornography was banned rape, battery and child abuse would still occur. In fact, there have been cases that suggest that the legalisation or loosening the restrictions on pornography leads to a decrease in sexual violence. But it's true that the 'objectification' factor is a tricky one - one that I haven't come up with a definitive solution for... all I know is that I love modeling and I never feel objectified while I'm shooting or afterwards when I know that men and women are having fun with my photos and videos (in fact it makes me excited!)

              On a side note, you may be interested to know that in one of my recent IMs (not released on the site) I masturbated with the aid of Andrea Dworkin's 'Pornography: Men Possessing Women' - just to add a little irony and subversiveness to a wank - Mz Dworkin has a way with words that just really does it for me...


              An interesting topic... I look forward to discussing it more

              Angie xoxox

              Comment


                #8
                "I believe one way to break the cycle is to begin to make pornography that embodies some feminist values." ----- That's more like it.

                Interesting article Mike, a little too biologically determinist for my taste but I agree with a lot of your points.

                Oh and it didn't put me to sleep - I'm wide awake and ready to read

                Comment


                  #9
                  I feel one of the weakest arguments against pornography is objectification of women. So what is wrong with objectification, at least for a short time and in a certain context? Answer...absolutely nothing. All men do it when viewing women anywhere and women do it to men when viewing them. Our thoughts concerning how we view someone change constantly and is natural. Besides, most of the time, people don't realize they are being thought of in a certain manner. Objectification, in most cases (there are always exceptions), doesn't hurt anyone. It's basically just another lame excuse for saying.."I personally don't approve of what you are doing, so I'm going to do my damn best to make sure you don't do it".

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by angie View Post
                    I agree with many of the things you've outline here but as I've just finished a Bachelor of Arts majoring in Gender Studies you can gather that I'd have a few comments!
                    How awesome! If I could live a dozen lives, at least one of them would have me in Gender Studies too. I really appreciate your response especially in light of that background.

                    Originally posted by angie View Post
                    I'm actually a feminist!!! Let's not attack feminists... they already have a big enough battle! Feminism is not a dogma, and many, many, many feminists have no problem with non-violent consensual pornography.
                    I'm sorry that I was careless- we agree 100% there. I should have explained something better: I said that I was responding to someone who described herself as a sex-positive anti-porn feminist. She identified herself that way in response to me identifying as a sex-positive feminist. I did so in part saying that I particularly supported the rights of women to work in pornography if they choose. I have a friend who is a producer and who has asked me to host a fetish site for her, so this is actually a practical matter.

                    It is strange that there are some women who would say that I'm not allowed to use the feminist label because I don't repudiate all pornography. I could turn around and question their feminism, since they apparently don't want their sisters to have economic equality in the industry. I won't ever do that however, because I agree with you that feminism shouldn't be dogma, even as some might like it to be.

                    The final response that I composed was partly to help me determine whether I needed to refine my own identification as a sex-positive pro-porn feminist. My conclusion is that there is too much pornography that I don't support for me to add that additional qualifier. Really, the labels aren't all that important to me. I know people with feminist values who hate the word and would never call themselves that.

                    Originally posted by angie View Post
                    On a side note, you may be interested to know that in one of my recent IMs (not released on the site) I masturbated with the aid of Andrea Dworkin's 'Pornography: Men Possessing Women' - just to add a little irony and subversiveness to a wank - Mz Dworkin has a way with words that just really does it for me...
                    That IS subversive. Is that IM pending release here or is it on one of the other sites?

                    Originally posted by angie View Post
                    Interesting article Mike, a little too biologically determinist for my taste but I agree with a lot of your points.
                    Thank you so much for all your comments Angie, I really appreciate them. I understand the objection to the determinism. Elsewhere I've written about intersexuality, and I really see gender identity as a continuum. I have transgender friends and appreciate the subversion of conventional roles. Still, so much behavior is understandable in terms of them that it is hard to ignore and easy to fall into the traps.

                    Mike
                    Last edited by oroboros; 4 December 2009, 11:44 PM. Reason: typo

                    Comment

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