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**angelus** · 9 October 2003, 12:16 PM

I wouldn't have bothered refunding him, but what I would have considered doing was to send him another cactus to double his pleasure or send him a photo of one to keep him happy.

We still love this site abby and fully appriciate all the hard work and dedication yourself and the team put in to keeping this site the best on the net.

**arsby** · 9 October 2003, 02:19 PM

Doing it with a cactus has gotta hurt. Probably addled his judgement.

REAL girls have blemishes and the occassional black-and-blue mark.
Send him back to playboy.com and airbrush heaven.

BTW, when did you promise anything other than what you deliver?

**mikhaill** · 9 October 2003, 03:41 PM

I've been here for a few hours only so far. Either this man is quite crazy, or else he has the sexiest cactus in the history of the world.

Perhaps if you'd had some girl-cactus sets/vids he'd have been happy. (The poor girl probably wouldn't have been.)

One happy new member here.

**stilton** · 9 October 2003, 06:50 PM

Clearly the closest that guy has ever been to a naked woman is a Barbie doll.

**catwoman** · 9 October 2003, 10:26 PM

Dirty feet, dirty fingers, dirty pussy??? You should have told him he needs to get a rag and clean his screen. As for douche...changes the ph not good for you anyway...

**timbit** · 9 October 2003, 10:58 PM

The guy readily admits he is/was insane.
I think he would probably like one of those creepy Japanese Anime-porn sites. You know, the ones with the cartoon girls with huge eyes and no skin blemishes or pubic hair.

Timbit

**angelus** · 9 October 2003, 11:03 PM

I need some help as I'm really confussed with his comments about the models being dirty, something I've also read in the comments section on one of the adult review sites about the models being dirty. What I want to know is where are these so-called dirty models, are these people even looking at the same abbywinters site???

I get a slight feeling this person may have a few trust issues, but I may just be mistaken.

**Dafydd** · 9 October 2003, 11:51 PM

Well, let's see:

Do I like women with dirty, unmanicured fingernails? Yes. Makes 'em look more human. And makes me feel less self-conscious about mine.

Do I like "girls with dirty feet....scars....black and blue marks"? Sounds like Jamie's first shoot — my answer to that one, then is obvious.

Do I like women with "needles marks [from] (drugs)"? No — which is why I like the fact that this site doensn't seem to have any.

Do I "like to see pussies ... [that] never have been douched? Oh, hells yes. Douche is not only misogynistic and unnecessary, it can actually be physically harmful.

Do I "like to see girls in the dark on video"? Hmm. In what dark, exactly? The vidoes I've seen are all well-lit, and the models seem to know what they're talking about, since they're talking about themselves.

Do I "like to read testemonials that must have been fabricated"? I'll tell you after I've read some.

"I have a cactus in my front yard that turns me on more than ANY video I have seen."
A cactus is long and round...and it's covered with pricks. Should we perhaps read something into this?

"Well, you have joined France..Germany...Russia...on our list as people that can not be trusted."
Tell me, was this fellow named George, or Donald?
That sentence alone betrays the writer's bloody-minded ignorance.

I wouldn't worry about this guy, Abby. It's all too obvious he hasn't a clue what he's talking about.

**andyshy** · 10 October 2003, 06:37 AM

People like him (?an assumption) are why he has no friends in France, Germany, Russia, and New Zealand. img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

**Talking Figleaf** · 10 October 2003, 07:50 AM

I don't know. I kind of feel sorry for the guy. I mean, the thing I like about AW models is they look like *people I've actually been partners with!!!* Or people I had crushes on in school, or at work, or on the bus, or at a diner, or *NEXT DOOR!!!*

Don't get me wrong. Supermodels and rock stars are often genuinely nice people (I met one at an informal dinner party once) and they can probably be just as genuine and warm in bed as the next person. But really, at the end of the day, they still get pimples (though not as many) and dirty fingernails (though not as often) as the next person.

One thing AW models *don't* have is PhotoShop. And thank goodness. (Some time you gotta check out how digital miracle workers do it.

Anyway, yeah, every now and then there's someone who's not quite as "fresh" as she could be. But on the other hand it's *SO COOL* that some of the models are literally creaming their jeans with real live fresh-from-the-well cream no less. Mmm, mmm, mmm!

And, as folks have mentioned in another thread, half the time the models are smiling fit to burst -- real smiles, not model here-you-go when's-my-break smiles but real honest happy-to-be-there smiles. We should all be so lucky the rest of the time. :-)

I love this site.

figleaf

**Abby** · 10 October 2003, 08:20 AM

Hi

I chose not to give him a refund after all (yet), but wrote a long and detailed response to him instead.

------------
Hiya

Sorry to hear you're not happy with the site.

I'd like to address your comments one by one. Of course, some of your comments are personal opinions, and I definitely encourage that, but I feel it's only fair that I correct your factual errors.

>If you like to believe ever again a site who promises you all that
>abby winters site does and does NOT deliver...than JOIN this site.

This gem is from the middle of your email, but I'll address it first. We are exceedingly careful to ensure everything we say on our tour (ie, in the area freely accessible to non-member) is absolutely correct. Thousands of people read that text each week, and many of them join. It would be crazy for me to base my business on a lie - that's not a business that is going to last long.

If you have found a factual error on my site (especially the tour), I'd very much like the chance to fix it. Please provide the details.

>This I tell my friends.
>If you like girls with dirty fingernails and badly manicured nails JOIN
>this site.

Our models are amateurs, not pro models (a fact we mention many times). We don't claim our models are all manicured, but we do say that our models are real, every-day girls. We photograph the kind of girls you see all day long in real life. Most people daily deal with secretaries, receptionists, clerks, college girls, and so on. THAT'S what we shoot.

I am not sure what women you interact with daily, but our models are a pretty good selection of your average Australian female. Some have manicures, most don't have time for that, they are too busy living their lives and having fun.

Of course, if you only ever deal with pro models in your daily life, good for you. You're a rare man, and all your friends are jealous, I am sure.

>If you like girls with pimples...JOIN this site.

Yes, a some of our models have acne. It may not be pretty, but it's real. Unlike a lot of sites, we don't doctor our images in PhotoShop. Our focus is on what is real, as we say all through our tour. If you want fantasy, there are many sites out there that cater to that. They go out of their way to make models look like a blow-up doll. If that's what you like to see, why not go join www.suze.net?

There is a significant fetish value for models with acne, a traditional indicator of youth. Less than 10% of our models would have severe acne.

>If you like soft porn JOIN this site.

You say this like it's a bad thing. We never claim to have hardcore images of cum soaked sluts. Why would you expect us to be anything other than what we claimed? If we WERE a hardcore site, why would we not go to a lot of effort to advertise that fact?!

>If you like girls with dirty feet...

Golly you are grumpy. So by your standards, an amateur model is not allowed to frolic in a park before she does a shoot for us? You're sounding terribly sexist. You want women to be sitting quietly on a sofa, staying clean and waiting for your convenience? Or do you want them out enjoying themselves, living their lives?

>...scars....black and blue marks...

In the real world, people have scars and small bruises. They may not be sexy on their own, but they are part of being a young female who gets out and about and has fun living their lives. You seem to be have been lulled into a false reality where everyone is a super-model. Pretty much every image you see in any media these days has been touched up to remove the flaws you find so abhorrent. Wake up. That's not real.

>...needles marks (drugs)..JOIN this site.

As far as I am aware, none of our models have track marks. You might be confusing us with some other site, or maybe you don't know what track marks look like. Specifically, who do you think has been using intravenous drugs? I agree, that is not appropriate to show on my site.

>If you like to see pussies
>(if ever you get to see one open) and you like them dirty..like never have
>been douched...JOIN this site.

Some pussies are spotless, some need a good hard scrub. Again, there is a lot of fetish value attached to "gamey" pussies, so we shoot it. Of course, it's also real. Some girls are cleaner than others. The downright grubby ones would make up less than 10% of our model-base.

Around half our models do explicit poses.

>If you like to see girls in the dark on video JOIN this site.

I think you need to adjust your monitor. Our videos are quite well balanced in contrast and brightness.

>If you like to read testemonials that must have been
>fabricated.. JOIN this site. If you would like to waste $65.00 JOIN this
>site.

Our testimonials are absolutely 100% real. So are the review sites where we average a score of 94%... or do you suppose we run those sites for our own benefit?

>In summation...I have clicked on about 40 or so girls that have videos and
>found the only thing that was acceptable was their great accent. As for
>getting turned on.....I have a cactus in my front yard that turns me on more
>than ANY video I have seen.

So, an honest question. What did you expect to get from this site? Did you look at ANY of the tour of this site, AT ALL?

What on the outside is not like the inside? Everything you list above is either clearly stated on the outside, directly implied, or a laughably small minority.

>Have deleted your site...as if you care..for you
>have my $$$$$. To have signed up for 90 days must have done in a state of
>insanity.

Would you like a refund?

>Very disapointed to have been deceived by an Australian site.
>Well, you have joined France..Germany...Russia...on our list as people that
>can not be trusted.

Who are these French, German and Russian sites? Please name them.

>I will leave my e-mail as not to be a person that pops off and stays anonymous.

Thanks for having the decency to supply your email address.

All in all, I think that my site is just not to your tastes, rather then being the satan-spawn your rude tone implies. There are many sites out there you would enjoy, I expect. From your email, www.suze.net might be one of them, but most of the glammy American sites should keep you happy.

I look forward to hearing back from you.
------------

abby

**Abby** · 10 October 2003, 08:22 AM

then, I got a reply from him

--------------
Hi,
Let me first thank you very much for your reply...if anything this has meant
a lot to me as I know now that you DO care.I will stand behind my opinion as
you call it and restate that I was VERY dissapointed with the site. As far
as a refund??? Well...that also is very kind of you...I should have just
signed up for ONE month ....if you care to refund the other two
months...that would be great..BUT...I made the error ...not you.
I will not go into an exchange as far as what I think versus your statements
or facts. I think that the Huns Yellow Pages is one of the MOST watched free
sites for checking out pay sites and I have had a dialoque with them
stating as such because of being a person born in Holland. It was there were
your site was advertised. They make no claims so this issue..I assure
you....is just between your site and myself. Again Abby, I appreciate your
replies to me. I DO appreciate THAT part of your service that you have
provided is lacking in MOST businesses , regardless of what they sell.
Good Luck
----------------

So, I refunded him half of his sub.

I have no idea why he is entering into a discussion with the Hun (we do advertise there sometimes), and I am left confused as you wht made him think this site was for him int he first place. I e'd and asked him, so stay tuned!

abby

**mikhaill** · 10 October 2003, 09:04 AM

Fascinating.

And credit to you for trying so hard to reason with him in the first place. img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

**angelus** · 10 October 2003, 11:06 AM

Are there any psychologists out there, because me thinks this blokey would make one hell of a test subject.

**Roops** · 10 October 2003, 12:23 PM

I was going to write a devastating spoof letter from a Mr Aaron A Anorak, but Mrs Roops disuaded me from doing so since seeing his reply to Abby. My dear wife feels sorry for him as she feels that he comes across as a honest, decent but totally misguided and possibly very young, immature man who probably has never experienced the delights of a female flinging her thighs over his face.

Mrs Roops also thinks that there maybe a language problem here and young dutch boy didn't fully understand the issues. On a separate note, Mrs Roops, who is an avid "Hun" surfer is certain that she read a few years ago an article in the "Hun" where he stated for the record that he is Australian and is based in Australia. If this is the case then it would be be fairly ironic that Dutch boy would have gone running to the "Hun" complaining about filthy lying bastard Aussies. Personally I think he is a Star and I hope he contributes to the forum as it would make life more interesting.

**ruffie** · 10 October 2003, 03:01 PM

Dear Abby,
Since you are one of the few, if not the only, site that I know of that posts photos of this type of reality, people may find that curious. I actually think I did at first, simply because I wasn't used to imperfection in the media. You avoided the temptation to "sugar coat" your models and make them appear different or "better" than they actually are. However, after review of thousands of your photos, and many others from other sites in news groups, I have come to realize that your method is preferable. Often, as I gaze on the wide variety of beautiful subjects from your site, I feel as though I am actually there with them, it's not a photo shoot, but they are posing solely for my viewing pleasure! How nice of them, what a nice feeling. Ok, maybe I am in need of medication to come back to reality? Furthermore, I really enjoy the variation of your subjects... from bathing suit model, to what some might describe as "ordinary" in appearance. However, there is not one model that I would eliminate from your site. Each and every one is beautiful in her own way and I appreciate their willingness to share that unique beauty with the world, especially me. (Smile) Yours is the only site I would pay to be a member of. Won't be with you for long this time but "I'll be back!"
Ruffie

**redrat** · 10 October 2003, 05:25 PM

Abby
That was nice of you to refund his money.
I do not agree with anything he said...
Except maybe that “sexy cactus in my front yard comment”.
I too have seen some sexy cacti… of course I was eating peyote at the time
Hey peyote is a cactus too… interesting
And yes, I must admit that I spanked Mr Monkey a few times while watching
Jamie videos. (thanks JB)
Maybe this would be a little more to his liking…
img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/messages/7/1996.jpg

**redrat** · 10 October 2003, 05:29 PM

Does that make you horny baby?
rr

**r44712** · 10 October 2003, 08:18 PM

Well to add my two pennth's worth, I joint the site late last year, renewed, renewed and have recently renewed again simply becuase it has 'normal' girls - and shock, horror - they have warts too. Strange that. I simply do not like the fabricated stuff that can be found on any US site.

I never have regreted my rejoining, either.

However if these 'normal' girls were just in fact prostitutes, etc., then I would feel annoyed.

**tyhopho** · 10 October 2003, 10:11 PM

just adding my 2 cents here - thoroughly happy recently joined person here img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

**joecool** · 10 October 2003, 11:46 PM

Abby,

I have to tell you that I joined your site because the girls have dirty fingernails and sometimes their pussies are not perfectly clean. I want to see real girls, girls that look like the women I see everyday. I work in a plant that most of the production is done by women. I will sometime see someone there that reminds me of one of your models.

I love all your videos and I have told you that many times before. I own all that you sell except the last two which I am waiting for you to sell so hurry up and make them available. I am a member of a few different photo sites but yours is the first one that I look at every night. I only wish you posted something on Sunday but I guess even you need to rest one day a week.

So that customer can shove his comments up his ass because that is where they are coming from.

Like Arsby said let him have his playboy.com, I will stick with you. No playboy model can compare to your models as far as I am concerned.

A true fan

Joecool

**Abby** · 11 October 2003, 03:56 AM

Hi

Just wanted to thank everyone for their kind words. Glad you like the site. img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

abby

**eyegore** · 11 October 2003, 05:02 AM

Howdy:

I would like to add my voice to the myriad of voices out there expressing absolute pleasure in AW. Keep up the great work of providing photos of REAL Girls/Women being real Girls/Women. I only subscribe to one site and it is AW. Being an Australian, and seeing Australian women being celebrated is an added bonus.

No complaints from this keyboard about the quality of your work Abby and its impression on me.

Ciao.

**r44712** · 11 October 2003, 10:35 PM

Strangely, a colleage was asking me at work what I thought of Australian women. I know what I wanted to say, but relented none the less, simply adding that I'd be finding out for myself, for real, next year when I travel there! Can't wait...!

**freddiet** · 13 October 2003, 09:59 AM

Dear Abby

As a Pom, I could well be considered an impartial judge of beautiful Australian women - which I why I subscribe to your site. It is fair to say that the list of models includes girls to suit most everyone's tastes - perhaps except for the sheep shagging males from New Zealand. I do hope that non of the models is upset by the comments of Cactus Man - after all, they do not have to take their clothes off for our pleasure and certainly should not be repaid with insults.

I suggest that, with his refund, you send Cactus Man a plant of his liking, a tin of petroleum jelly and a short instruction leaflet telling where to shove it!

Keep up the good work.

FreddieT

**jusda2ofus** · 13 October 2003, 11:03 AM

Dear Abby,

We are a swinging couple and as well as taking our own pics, we like to look at pics of others. We especially like to look at pics of REAL people rather than those that have spent a couple of hours in the hand of make-up artists before their shoot. The one thing that really annoys me about that guys complaint is the slur he casts on some of the girls that you have photographed.
I hope if they read this thread, they all ignore it. They are absolutely georgous and whilst some are in a traditional sense more attractive than others, they all have a own certain beauty in their individual features.

A big thanks to you for the pics you take and having the site available and an even bigger thanks to all the girls who allow you to show their beauty to all of us.

Kat & Peter

**sweatyfox** · 14 October 2003, 10:33 AM

Hi Abby, Kat and Peter and everyone else

I share many of your sentiments. I did not take much notice of the guy's comments about the site, I mean surely some criticisms are welcome but they might as well be constructive and this guy offers no good points or suggestions which Abby could look into. I hope Abby just ignored it because surely even amongst the negative feedback there are more useful emails than that. Besides the things he says about this lovely site are plainly not true but those above have already spoken out about that.

Like you guys though I was more offended by what he actually says about the models. You can see that this site was clearly not for him in the first place. I find it a shame he can't appreciate young natural girls and women as they are and exploring their sexuality in their own individual way. Instead he seem to only want the models to look as he wants them to and them to live out his own fantasies all the time. Certainly the last thing he seems to want to do would be to interact with any of them, which is partly the whole point of the boards. He needs to go read Jamie's bit about model liason and realise that the girls chosen have personalities and in many cases are interesting to listen to as well.

Well don't wanna generalise about the guy, after all I don't know him and may be wrong about some of this. He does send a kind of apology but it would be nice if he someday can take these girls for what they are and not some kind of ideal vision he has in his head.

SF

**Melinda** · 21 April 2007, 06:18 AM

I know this thread is super old, but had to reply to it... what a fascinating complaint you got all that time ago Abby, it was pretty entertaining to see this guy go nuts in his initial email and then back right off once you replied and set him straight, I bet it's not the only strange email complaint you have received over all your time, but it certainly must be one of the funniest... if anyone is checking out this thread read post #1 then #12 and then #13... pretty funny stuff... btw, I hope you're still getting the same kind of positive to negative feeback ratio as you were back then Abby (I'm sure you are

, if not better)...

Luv Melinda

**wannadance** · 28 April 2007, 02:26 PM

hi abby, what a weird and overall entertaining exchange you've had with cactus man....

the main thing that bewilders me is the comment about 'dirty pussy'. i will start scutinizing but i don't know how a person can SEE this. one comment about 'girl cum'. i think that the secretions which result from orgasm are usually very thin and watery. the thick semen-like stuff is not what girls get afterwards but usually before during early arousal. i think it is slightly gross since most all of girl secretions, in my experience, are thin and slippery.

but i don't think it's by any means 'dirty' . just having a hard time imagining 'dirty' as a visual thing..but then my vision is failing fast, so maybe....

hope this doesn't send me to conventry....(hee hee, earlier factoid learned maybe 5 minutes ago).
i get kind of offended when anyone criticizes my AW 'family', since that is what we are...

dancer

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