AW vids are crap?

[Abby]

Hi

Been exchanging emails with a member, thought I might post my most recent reply here, as it has some info some ppl might kie to know...

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Hi

>My board name is *****. If i remember correctly, i did post a fe suggestions
>regarding your girl/girl shoots... You didn't seem to like them very much!

Ah, yes. Just had a re-read of your posts.

You have some good ideas, but like a lot of consumers, you do not have a realistic view of producing videos. It's easy for consumers to say "well, that's not my problem, you ask for ideas, and I am giving you ideas!", but I am not a magician, nor a particularly amazing video producer. So, as I replied to you in the thread, we need PRACTICAL ideas for shoots.

We have the tools, the models, the staff and the money to produce videos, but we're lacking PRACTICAL ideas.

I am not being a grumpy bitch for the sake of it, I am being realistic. I have been on probably hundreds of video shoots, and I know how they work, what the limitations of the models, gear, light and locations are.

I know you think I am being grumpy (you alluded to it several times in your last three emails!). I used to be JUST like you, before I started a site. Making constructive criticisms when I could, trying to get websites to make a better product. They seldom replied, and when they did, they said, "dude, you just don't GET it. Life isn't like that".

It took me three years of my life to find out why.

When you start making material for your site, you'll find similar obstacles. You'll end up selling out (at least partially) just as I and so many other have. Sometimes, you just have to compromise. It sucks, but it's life.

>img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif I know it is difficult to accomodate members requests... Im sure you
>have got a lot of members, and im sure a lot of them have requests as well.

Yes, this is another problem - ideas posted by yourself and others centre around specific fetishes that plenty of people find off-putting (menstruating is a prime example). While I am sure some members would be ecstatic about a shoot based on the usage of feminine hygiene products, many many more would be grossed out. We're able to cater to some fetishes that I judge would be popular, but not all of them.

I am not saying I know best - I am sure I have missed out on good opportunities - but someone has to make the decision, and that's me. Additionally, stuff I shoot, _I_ have to be into myself, or I just cannot do it justice. That's not fair on the models, the crew, or the members.

>I don't think they are crap ideas, because then i would not have posted
>them. Others might think so... Atleast i didn't make any of sucj remarks to
>the others ideas, even if i thought they weren't really that good.

Yes, thanks for your restraint. Most people also showed restraint, which is good. We need ideas, not to argue. Even if I don't use your specific idea as a whole, I liked several small elements (girls describing personal things to each other, touching each other and adjusting the fit of under-garments, to name two).

>> >I suppose i could tell you... But i think you are more a 'photo site'
>>than a'video site', so it wouldn't matter anyway.
>>You may think that, but more and more people are joining the site for the
>>video stuff only, so the pressure is on us to do more and better stuff.
>
>To be perfectly honest with you Abby (i don't see ant reason for lyeing...),
>and i mean this in a positive constructive critisism... If that last
>statement is true, i would suggest you put a lot more effort into your video
>clips.

Yes, again, easy to say. So here's a short story.

I used to sub to image sites from 1997 to 2000 or so. I was always disappointed by what they had (very few sites had video then, and anyway, I was on 28k modems!). So I started thinking about making my own site. I had always liked (stills) photography. I started shooting for it. Then I opened a site. Some people joined. Then people started saying, "hey, why don't you guys shoot some videos?".

A mate had a new digital video camera. Another mate - VidDude - was interested in shooting and editing video. So we shot some video (Jasmin was the first). We had no fucking idea how to do it (on SO many levels). We had never shot proper video before, but we thought, how hard can it be?

We klutzed our way thru it. Initially, members were very thankful for videos, regardless of how crap they were - they appreciated the effort. Remember, we're not a massive media company, we're just a few people who share some similar ideas on how stuff should look. More of a collective of interested people, than a profit making exercise.

Months went by, we got new subscribers, who did not realise how and why we started, and complained, much as you are complaining, "how come you make me pay for these crap videos?!".

So, we had to either tell these people to piss off, ignore them, or make better videos. By this stage, I was starting to realise I was on to a good thing. Initially, I had a full time 60-hour week day job, and the site was a hobby. But the site was growing, and the new people joining were expecting from us the same level of material and service as mega-sites provide. I considered ditching my day job, and working on the site full time.

Sounds like a dream come true, right? A hobby you love, being turned into a profitable medium-sized business... but the truth is, I kinda miss the early days. Now, everything we do is 100% official and legit. While we don't have multiple share-holders, I do feel obliged to grow the company and keep it running as best I can; as opposed to a hobby, where you can pretty much do what you want.

I don't really like videos. I never downloaded them from the web, much preferring VHS tapes or later DVDs. But our models were up for. Many of our members wanted more of it. VidDude was keen. We had the gear and the models, the time and the money... but still not a lot of skills.

So, it's nice of you to suggest we put more effort into our videos, but it's not that simple.

The effort we put in has to be _productive_, effective effort. I can't just clap my hands, say "right! Today, we're gonna shoot some video!". We need cohesive ideas, that fit in both with the paradigm we created with the website, what the models are comfortable with, what WE are comfortable with and find engrossing, and what the members find interesting.

It's easy for you to suggest that, but it's hard for us to produce videos that Work. Before you say it, I know many other sites have lots of video content, but we're not like other sites. Just because they have hours of video of models "masturbating" (slamming a massive dildo in and out and groaning theatrically), were not gonna make crap like that.

If a model is going to be masturbating on video, she needs to do it for real. Our models are amateurs in the true sense of the word. Not pros with bad makeup wearing jeans and sneakers and acting nervous, like other sites, but normal girls off the street who have never, EVER done anything like this before.

Expecting them to masturbate convincingly on video with a crew in the room is just not realistic. Some models can pull it off (ha!), and those that can, we shoot. But there's not many of them, and even if it is real, it's not always interesting enough for release.

This is an example of the AW paradigm. In this case, it's restrictive. Viewed another way, it means we keep our quality level up - or at least one aspect of it - the "reality" factor. Maybe that means our vids are forever going to be lame for you and some other people. But some prefer reality and damn the expense of their fantasies (which have been built up and spoon fed to them by the mass media).

>Im not sure what quality those people are used to, if they haven't
>seen any other sites, they might think your video clips are good. As soon as
>they start browsing around, i think they will change their mind though.

Well hang on, that's a bit rich!! Jesus. What we're talking about comes down to personal opinion, not a matter of "right" and "wrong". I am not saying our videos are perfect, but I think you'd agree that most of them - especially the newer ones - have several elements in common:

spunky girls
naked
talking
doing Stuff
(interacting with each other if a GG)

Please be careful not to oppress opinions. We have already established that you don't like our videos, but that does not mean they are crap, nor that everyone agrees with you.

>Quite a few of them have this really annoying music!

Yah, I dislike the music a lot. VidDude does all the video editing, and the music addition was his call (there are several threads on the boards about the music, if you'd care to read them). I always disliked it, but the site is a group effort, and VD thought it was good, so I let it slide.

The music covered up bad, inappropriate, or non-existent live audio in our early videos. When we learnt how to capture live sound properly, we started including it more. Now, all our new vids have 100% live sound, and we're not adding music any more. At the moment, I'd say live sound account for a bit less than half of all our content. I guess we could remove all vids with no live sound, but a lot of those vids are good, even though they have bad music, so I figure we keep them.

>they are too short,
>...and quality could be better.

Yah, the length of videos is probably due to change. We have been pegged to the two-minute format since we started. Around half our members are on dialup, so we need to provide videos for them that are effective. We used to use a lot more footage of models. That means we'd shoot 10 minutes, and use eight - more videos, more website updates.

Now, we might shoot 10 mins and use two to three minutes - we're editing more aggressively. Earlier videos tended to ramble, now they are shorter, sharper packages. That also means less material to update the site with, and to entice potential members with based on numbers.

As I said, I don't DL vids from other sites, but several review sites have said thought our video content is very good quality (I never thought it was, but I guess they'd know...).

We made the Gold videos 4 minutes long, and much better quality, and these have been popular. We regularly get complaints from dialup users, but there's not a lot I can do.

>not too exciting, not enough 'action'

By "action", I am not clear if you mean explicit-ness, or models moving around... for the former, we shoot models to a level of explicit-ness they dictate. Some are more comfy to do explicit stuff for stills and not video. Whatever their decision, we respect. Unlike a lot of sites, we don't coerce our models into doing ore than they planned. We offer them the work, and let them decide.

For the latter, I dunno, I guess they could move around more. *shrug* they need an activity to make that effective. Sometimes we come up with fun and interesting stuff, others we try hard and it does not work, still other shoots just tend to be more static.

>i think you have such a big potential here... You have so many
>really beautiful and really sexy girls on your site.
...
>I know for sure i would scream with enjoyment!!

Yes, I know we have a lot of potential. People tell me this every day. I get emails from people who INSIST I am utterly CRAZY if I do not pursue their fetish. They say I'd be rolling in money, members would be beating down my door, etc.

Some of these people have been convincing - the guy who was a hardcore balloon fetishist, for example. Said as soon as I included a balloon-centric shoot, he'd tell his fetish buddies, and I'd have dozens of new members, and I'd get other people interested in that fetish as well. So I did the shoot to his instructions. It cost a lot of money, and this guy said it was one of the best balloon shoots he had ever seen...

Of course, I got apparently no new members because of it, and very few positive comments. I think most people were bemused by it... it's kinda weird. The shoot is in Deviations.

This same story could be told about several shoots I have done at other people's behest. Others gross me out - do you want to see shoots of models shitting on the floor? Apparently I could double my daily signups overnight, if I included that. Or play with used tampons. Or knife play. And so on.

Sure, some people would scream with enjoyment, but others would be alienated. Of course, plenty of people are alienated as it is - I regularly get emails telling me they cancelled because too many of my models had pubic hair (something we cherish, here)!!

In the end, all I can do is "maintain the rage" with my own personal vision for the site. Some people will join cos they like what I like, others will cancel when I change something. I could try to appeal to the lowest common denominator, like some of the mega sites do - dozens of shoots covering every possible fetish in a lukewarm fashion - but then you end up with a rambling mess with no cohesion or passion (that's a bad thing!)

I long ago realised the only way to run a successful biz on the net is to pick a niche you know well and appreciate - feel passionate about - and shoot for that niche. That's what we do. The business is growing faster than I can keep track, and I guess that's an indicator that I am doing something right (even if you think it's not).

>If you could manage to capture the moment on your video clips as good
>as you do on your photo shoots, im sure they would be amazing.

Interesting comment. Unfortunately (again) unrealistic, except on a concept level. The mediums are totally different in so many ways. When you start shooting for your site, you'll realise this. Or, maybe you'll make me eat my words, and show the world how effortless narrative on film can be. img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

If you have some practical tips for me, I am all ears. Not a fantasy of what you'd like to see - that's nice, but not the point.

>Maybe my ideas doesn't seem so bad (crap) after all....?!? img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I never said your ideas were crap, just that they were mostly not practical.

>So, again let me say that i don't say any of these things to be nasty or
>rude in any way!! It's ment as a constructive critisism. I hope you're not
>mad at me...?? img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Nope, not mad at you - I always appreciate feedback, especially when you back your claims up with reasons (instead of saying "your vids are crap!").

However, I am a little frustrated that you think that all it takes to produce brilliant video clips are fantastic ideas (aka, fantasies). That's about 10% of the work, and the EASY 10% at that. It's the other 90% that's hard.
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[mikhaill]

Man.

One question.

How many hours of your day do you devote to exchanging emails like this? That must've taken hours to write! I type fast and I can imagine looking up at the clock after typing out that one and wondering where the time went.

I like the videos, best thing about the site in my view. Perhaps I'm easily pleased. *shrug*

[Abby]

Mik, that's an unusually long one. I write them when I need to de-stress, a few times a week, I guess.

Glad you like the vids. img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

a

[mikhaill]

[B]Mik, that's an unusually long one. I write them when I need to de-stress, a few times a week, I guess.

Who knew becoming a porn queen would be such demanding work? ;-)

[sweatyfox]

Hi

A few points:

I think the videos are getting even better. Real masturbation to the point of climax (resulting eventually in Intimate Moments). Girls having fun, showering (yay). More imaginative ideas for the girls who just want to have some fun but not do something quite explicit (24 with Daisy, Francis's cooking, Liana clambering in the woods). Live sound which just means some additional editing.

I personally like to see the girls in the flesh, either smiling and having fun or, if they are prepared to do so, in their more intimate and explicit moments. I totally understand that these are amateurs (which reassures me) and that you have to adjust shoots accordingly. Also if doing a video like today's with Francis, you have to have a girl who can pull it off like she does. (It can actually be very sexy to see a girl who is a bit unused to it or shy, do masturbation on camera but as you say they have to be fine with it.)

Very importantly, along with the masturbation/fun/imaginitive scenario videos, the videos are a great way to learn more about the model, what she does, how she has fun, little stories from their lives and what they like about their bodies etc. If possible, its great if in a series of videos you can have one video maybe at the start with the model introducing herself, hobbies, body and then go on to have her doing either fun ones like Francis or a more intimate ones like Casey. So its getting the best of both. I really enjoyed the funny video of Francis today and would like to have had one video before perhaps, where she introduced herself and then her body.

These are just a couple of suggestions but I really don't have any problems with the videos, as I say I think you are getting a good mix. Along with the message boards we are actually getting a chance to see and hear these young ladies and get a chance to know more about them. Which is I think healthy (they're not just pretty faces) and not many other sites offer such clips where the girls talk about themselves and seem comfortable, happy and relaxed. Usually on other sites I think they just jump straight into a sex scene (solo or with partner), if they do a video! Hurrah then for Abby's amateurs!

And as for the g/g, you know you do it best when you just leave the girls to it. Usually you've chosen two girls who have great chemistry! And as you say the photo shoots, especially g/g ones are very different from videos. In the vids, cos you leave them to it, we can be assured that there is no posing and the girls are genuinely into each other. I think you make the point somewhere about fantasies, these are all very well and it will be nice if some memebers get to see their ideas translated into a shoot but there is no substitute for real desire, passion and attraction between two models. And presumably this sometimes takes time to find! I didn't expect to see girls living out MY fantasies here (ie doing what I want them to do), I want to see them doing what they like to do and what turns them on. Part of the ethos of this site is surely appreciating these natural young girls for what they ARE. I can have my own fantasies later if I want.

Sorry, the above email was long and I haven't covered all the points and my own post is getting a little long cos I have to go out now. Rest assured Abby, I love the videos, the g/g especially but the solo ones as well which add a lot to the site. Miranda made the point in her thread about proving she is more than a pretty face and is delightful to talk to. The videos perform a similar function giving a more complete picture of just who these girls are. For those of us who live 1000s of miles away and may not ever get a chance to meet many of them, it is truly nice to know that such funny, intelligent, happy or kind girls, comfortable with their natural bodies as they are, are out there.

SF

[Roops]

I havn't written for some time now (some people may say thats a good thing) as I have been very busy hiring new staff and getting my website up (absolute hell ! not as easy as so called "experts" say it is !) but I felt I just had to butt in and say a few words that are probably no use to anyone. Clearly Abby's correspondent has not read the intro pages and does not understand what AW.com is all about. Even after viewing the forums he still does not get it. The person is a moron. This effects all of us as Abby should be spending her time maintaining the excellence of the site rather than wasting time writing to brain dead pricks.

As for the vids I cant comment as I got dial-up but only for another two weeks - cant wait for my work load to go back to what it was before so that I may see the vids and comment on them.

One other thing, I like Abby when she's grumpy, it turns me on.

[arsby]

Roops, don't forget that the guy who wrote the email is a member, and has posted to the boards on occassion. I think "moron" is a little harsh. Perhaps "outspoken", even "hard-headed".

Don't forget that he did provoke an extraordinarily lengthy, provocative, and informative rant from our fearless leader. We should be thankful to him for that.

I must admit that I agree with you, Abby is one sexy broad when she's grumpy. And when she's angry... SPROINNNGGG!

[arsby]

Roops,
What type of website are you putting up?
It wouldn't involve pictures of naked ladies by any chance?
Like, maybe naked pictures of Mrs. Roops!!!


There, I said it. Don't hit me.

[Roops]

Arsby, you're right of course. Usually I wait a few hours before I committ my thoughts to electronic paper so to avoid such unpleasantness. I withdraw my opinion of said member. I think he is best described as confused and misinformed.

BTW, I note your pleasure at Abby's lengthy post. Does this mean you have had a change of heart over post size and we can now write big ones without fear of incurring your wrath ?

Also, could not Abby have a "without prejudice" abuse section on the boards where members are invited to post items so that the scented one could slag and abuse us purely for the sexual gratification of sad gits like ourselves ? This also might be another way for Abby to let off steam - a cyber punch bag if you will. This will free her mind and so help her to produce more works of art.

[Roops]

Arsby, you should never be afraid to speak your mind - of course I won't hit you! BTW you should expect a visit in the next few days from my cousins, Ronnie and Reggie Roops. The website is my firms corporate "show piece" - basically what we do and where. I'm no techie but I have spent many hours writing the specs in the hope that the web designers have interpreted my wishes correctly. The website is aimed at a very narrow market so bandwith issues are not a problem. One interesting note is that I have pointed the deigners to AW.com as a model for brilliant navigation, I think one guy actually signed up !

Sadly there are no pictures of naked ladies and certainly not of Mrs Roops, though she has posted 5 pics to a "voyeur/post yourself" site. I almost had a thrombosis when I found out AFTER the event. I will give no clues as to which site the pictures are on as with the info in the pics and other clues in my various posts someone might be able to put 2 and 2 together. Needless to say, whislt thankfully her face is obscured you should look for a early thirties female body that closley resembles Gabrielle though no tatoos and with untrimmed bush. I will neither confirm or deny any website url that a fellow learned friend might suggest.

[icramcha]

Hi Abby, wow i just read that epic of a message and was somewhat touched by how serious and personal you take your work. I would have to say that this site has gone beyond a hobby, and like many artists, has become a passion. So i just thought i'd ad that you will never be able to please everyone hence the best policy is to stick to what made your site the best in the biz.... (but i'm sure you already know this so i hope i have not insulted your intelligence) ie. original models, fine photography and your own personalized touch. (ps. i actually like your vids and more specifically the concept behind them as they are "real" and do not insult the intelligence)

Perhaps the best way to deal with the masses of critics is to post a poll for any idea that warrants,in your opinion, merit. Its easy to code and gives instant results.

Well that's my 5 cents (though given the exchange rate on the Canadian dollar its worth more like 2 cents...)

Cheers,

I

[pingo]

Abby,

I can only agree to Icramcha's post.
And while I appreciate the energy you devote to answering critical or angry email (because it shows that this site isn't just a cashcow or a department of some porn kingdom), I think you should try and grow some thicker skin. It's just so much better for your stomach lining.
Just as others have said, you just can't please anybody.

The step of going for live sound instead of (cheesy, I agree completely) music is a complication of several magnitudes that most people don't realize. (Although I apreciate any video that does have sound)
Staff mustn't sneeze, shuffle feet, rustle paper or give directions. Or you have to disrupt the flow of the action and yell "CUT!". This takes something away from the kind of material we're used to. (And which made us subscribe) It makes the material more professional and that includes all the BAD connotations of that. (And especially those)
And that is something that doesn't really fit to AW. With all those almost family-like interaction between models and AW, models and members, AW and members, not to mention members amongst themselves, this site is as uncommercial as a paysite can get. (Do I make myself clear?!?)

Ahh well, chill and ignore the nonbelievers and backstabbers, keep doing your thing. Those who are with you will stay and those who feel different (and thus ripped-off and cheated) will leave, banging doors. Such is life when there are 6.000.000.000 other people around.

[sweatyfox]

Hi sorry to post again but seeing as Roops slipped 3 in, I thought I might get away with it.

1) By saying that this site proves there are such lovely girls out there, I did not mean that I didn't know this already. I have met many lovely friendly, funny and generous girls here in London including some of my classmates. I just meant that its nice to know that they are out there, in all kinds of different places if you look hard enough, cheering others up and sharing their personalities with others. Its just a shame that a) most of the nice young ladies I meet and get on like a house on fire with are already attached and b) I'm not exactly Brad Pitt or anything close to that.

2) Like the others above I wonder constantly why people don't read your "About Abby" page and realise what the site is about. I love the fact that at AW.com the whole 'ethos' runs contrary to most other porn sites out there. I appreciate the fact you are trying to balance as many different tastes as possible but there is an overall dedication to providing a totally refreshing alternative to what's out there. If people want the usual then go to any of the hundreds of sites out there that offer the same thing as each other. I am happy to be part of a membership that appreciates these 'real' women for what they are. I can't believe someone can look thorugh the massive variety of different girls here and not be drawn in by any of them. Oh well.

3) Glad to hear the part about cherishing the pubic hair, something close to my heart. What a stupid reason to cancel a membership. (And you take such good close up photos too!). I'm even almost offended that its included in the 'fetish' section, "what so I'm a weirdo for liking a nice grown up young adult woman with breasts (even small cute ones), curvy hips and bums and a generous amount of pubic hair?". Sheeesh (not directed at you Abby). Anyway you provide a balance for those who don't like it so much, so who is not happy? But in reality you can go to 90% of adult sites now, to see a woman with privates as bald as a Swiss glacier, so thank goodness for Abby taking an stand! Even though I much prefer a nice bush, a few of my favourite models don't have one, cos I don't judge a model solely on that criteria. So why can't people appreciate the girls as they come and have their particular favourites?

4) Thank goodness you're not planning to turn this into a fetish site, it would be too conflictual. I'm all for requests like Ratty's love of 'bum' shots and Arsby's request for some Mrs Roops, these are good fun but how would you ever be able to satisfy all the different demands out there. Go find a fetish site to keep you happy but I urge you to stick here, if you can't find anything sexy about the kaleidoscope of girls on AW.com, then I have to be honest, I do worry for you! I like to think I have taste by being here.

Hi Roops, good to see you back on the boards. I would go give your wife some nice comments if you let me in on the secret of the site where I can find her. And Abby feel free to vent your frustrations every once in a while. I said before that there is something very funky about your posts when you are annoyed but hopefully you still like us after all is said and done. Cos I certainly feel admiration for you and what you have achieved with the site.

I'll shut my English cakehole now and let you get on with it.

SF

[Vid Dude]

I just thought I'd chip in briefly to say I really appreciate you guys who like the videos, cheesy music and all. I plan to have more fun silly videos also, but they are going to be infrequent, to make them special.

img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[stilton]

I fail to understand how anybody can join this site without knowing what to expect....

Doesn't it have one of the biggest free/sample sections you could expect to find? That's certainly the main reason I joined...I knew exactly what I was going to see....and it's obvious that the videos will be the same - real girls, REAL. There's not many other words to describe it with.

Oh, and I agree with Sweatyfox, that it's a bit weird that pubic hair has (by no fault of anyone here) become classified as a fetish.....and I loved the 'swiss glacier' analogy.....

[Roops]

[B]Hi Roops, good to see you back on the boards. I would go give your wife some nice comments if you let me in on the secret of the site where I can find her.

Dear, dear kind and thoroughly decent Sweatyfox, I love you dearly (in an american way of course) and I would gladly trust you with my wallet knowing it would be returned with it's contents undisturbed, however I fear I may have said too much already and I cannot tell you the site where the photo's are. I think Mrs Roops got carried away soon after she purchased her new digital camera. This happened when I was abroad. Incidently Mrs Roops tells me if you decide to surf the "post yourself" sites you will meet a fellow board member in all her glory and very fetching she is too.

Finally, thank you very much for your welcome but I regret I will be gone for a few days again - just too much work, but to quote General MacArthur, "I shall return" or for you less informed viewers I quote Governor Arnie (elect) "I'll be back". BTW have you seen some of the recent ISM girls - gritty and hair too ! - marvellous !

[Abby]

just on that fetish index issue, we really need to find a better name for it, as what it is becomming is just another way to locate content you want (much like a by-date or by-name sort). The fetishes are really just categories or groupings of sets that have that attribute.

abby

[stilton]

Why not just 'categories'? That's what they are, whether they're fetishes or not.....

[cascade]

Thoughts from a very new site member.

I joined AW maybe four or five days ago. I came to find out about the site via a couple of stray pictures I came across on usenet and from Jane's, which incidentally says you're original and quality. I checked out the site a few months ago, looked at the prices, and blew it off. But it's getting harder and harder these days to find high quality erotica so I deceided to take a chance and join up. I went gold because I didn't see much sense in joining without getting the proverbial full monty, so now here I am locked in for a three month journey through Abby-land. I was suprised when someone posted so quickly about the videos, which I have mixed feelings about thus far. I found your email highly enlightening, abby, as I hope other people with similar questions did. As I'm sure you're all aware, whoever he is, he's not the only one on the site with those concerns.

I'll start by saying I found the video length a bit shocking. For the amount of money a gold membership costs I had been expecting nice long 30 minute video clips with conversation, stripping, playing around, etc... Not so. The good news was it seemed like what the videos lacked in quantity ( or length ) they made up for in quality. I've really enjoyed the limited quantity of videos on the site by and large because they were clearly put together so well (forgetting of course about the midi music) and because they were almost disturbingly honest. One gets accustomed to a level of falseness having looked at porno on line for many years. So seeing someone who you can tell is honestly doing what she's doing, be it masturbating or making out with another girl, can come as quite a shock to the system. You see glimpses of it other places (girlsdot.com and raverporn come to mind) but they don't come close to the consistent level of intimacy your videos provide. So for that, kudos to you, big props, much love and respect.

That having been said, there are still things this member complains about which can't be avoided or ignored. More and more people have broadband and more and more people are expecting video content. You spoke at length in your email about growing the business, and I can't help but feel that to do so you need to develop the video aspect of the site. You can say you're sticking to your vision of the site or that it's too hard or you don't have the ideas all you want, but that won't change what people want to see. If you believe that you can continue to grow and expand while sticking to one medium for 90% of your content ( images ) more power to you. I just honestly can't see it working. As for the content of your videos, I don't think we can really question it can we? This site, as you put it, is your vision, it has its rules and its standards. The content of your videos isn't really something we deceide, just as much as the content of the photos isn't either ( see balloon fetish shoot, wtf? ) so you've got to stick to your guns with content. It's gotten you this far hasn't it?

Here is one ignorant peon's suggestion. You need video on this site to continue growing, I'd stake money on that. You've said you're growing already, it's time to expand your pay roll. Get some people who are as into this as you and your cohorts are and put them in charge of video. Make a little sub-devision of the company. Just as there are professional photographers there are professional videographers. This is important, because if you keep trying to do it all yourself the over all quality of your work will suffer and members will know. Keep the video guys/gals on part time. A little video can go a very long way, as you've already proven. Doubling your existing video content would probably have a visible impact. It might, for example, make the difference in wether or not guys like me continue to subscribe.

The final thing to consider in all of this is just what your real user base wants Vs what you're willing to provide. Let's start by being honest about what % of members post to the boards and what % just come here, look at the media, and move along. I find that no matter how close the people on the boards are to a website they represent a vocal minority of its subscriber base. So you've got to keep in mind that whatever people say here may not represent what the majority of people want. Of course, there is again the matter of what you're willing to provide. Any idiot can provide web porn, it's childishly simple. To do what you do however, takes love, dedication, and hard work, and for that we're all grateful I'm sure. It must also put a pretty high burden on you, and as you grow you're going to find you simply can't handle it on your own. Find people you trust to help you grow, people you're sure can make it happen and let them do some of the work.

If you want to focus on images because you don't like video, do that. I don't think you can afford to ignore the trend in what people want ( more videos ) and what you can provide. Let's be honest here, your videos are consistently great, a cut above the rest, but the labor to pay off ratio doesn't seem feasible. So if you want to grow the site as a whole, put someone in charge of the videos department and keep doing what you love doing. If it doesn't work, can't say you didn't try. If it does, you've got more people behind your back and a continually expanding user base. I have no idea where the majority of your users live, but if it's in the US I can assure you that broadband is coming faster and faster to more and more places. The days of dialup are numbered, as are the days of just image erotic sites. In business you have to adapt and diversify to survive, you may find that there's never been a better time to do so than right now.

BT

[sweatyfox]

Hi again, yes again

Stilton, hi, thanks for the support on that issue mate!

Roops, don't worry, I didn't really expect you to reveal details of Mrs Roops's exact location, just letting you know I would have been complimentary in any comment I left, if I had stumbled across her on one of those sites. I also do love the ISM girls you mention!

The post above by Cascade, I can see your point. You must remember that Abby is primarily a very good photographer who takes great pictures and puts a lot of thought into each set, it appears anyway. This is why you end up getting a decent, fuller portrayal of each model than on other sites where they go through the standard 'X' poses. The girls here are carefully chosen also so that they are refreshingly different, varied, fun, young and natural. So the pictures are what really make AW.com quality in the first place. The videos are a bonus along with this messageboard and you rightly point out the honesty and lack of falseness in them.

I think that the video content is really good and still improving for the reasons in my first post on here. Vidman is doing a good job along with some input from Jamie. Yes each vid is 4 minutes long but there are sometimes 4 or 5 for a model which adds up to 20 minutes. Now you may be right about having slightly more length overall. I would rather the vids were still split up into parts though. I have broadband but it is not the fastest speed. The times for solo vid downloads are fairly good and the g/g vids a worth waiting a bit longer to download them. However I wouldn't want the file size becoming so big that it takes a frustrating time to download them. The g/g vids already take longer but I can certainly tolerate that. However not if they were taking ages and ages. So maybe more videos for each model, 5 or 6 is the answer rather than big 30 min chunks. I don't know so much about different methods of compression but I don't want to sacrifice quality of picture for running time and I think the g/g vids are clear and sharp enough.

SF

[arsby]

Cascade said, The days of dialup are numbered, as are the days of just image erotic sites.

I, for one, much prefer the pics to the video at this or any other site. I wouldn't mind at all if AW was a "just image" site.

This issue is crying for a survey. Obviously people in this thread consider video to be important. But I wonder what percentage of the members are like me.

Sample question:
This question is about your enjoyment of erotic sites in general, not specifically about AbbyWinters.com.
o I prefer looking at images at erotic sites. I really don't care if they have video.
o I prefer looking at images at erotic sites, but I like video, too.
o I prefer looking at videos at erotic sites. I really don't care if they have images.
o I prefer looking at videos at erotic sites but I like images, too.
o I prefer erotic sites that balance videos and images. Emphasizing one or the other won't do.

[gvd]

AW is all about beautiful girls doing what they are comfortable with. I love the pictures and I trust that everybody here at the site will keep coming up with new, doable ideas. As for the video... I think it is better than every other site I've been to because it is truely amateur. You see the real chemistry between these girls and they enjoy each other... it seems as friends and as other things as well img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

So Abby keep up the good work (oh and a Redux on Danielle sometime would be great as well ;)

[sweatyfox]

Wow I find myself with a free moment at this time of the day.

For me it is like this. I already emphasized that the images are a key selling point and the main focus. BUT The other thing that sells it to me and others is what 'verryimpressed' has said in his post. Not every model is like Miranda, Liana, Tammy etc and has taken or can take the time out to post and interact on the boards. So video is the way of getting to actually know these girls as people and many of them have more to offer. Abby isn't so interested in that side of things, so she gets on with taking the wonderful photos and lets Vidman, Jamie and the model come up with ideas I guess? That's fine. Its a great compromise, the videos, they compliment the images nicely and justify even further the Gold section etc. They are not mutually exclusive. I will always appreciate Abby's pictures and be glad a girl chose to come to her to do a shoot, I know I will get to see pictures which do some justice to her and explore her beauty and body in a more imaginitive and complete way than other sites. But the vids are important because for me it just doesn't end there, I am intrigued, I would like to actually try and get to know this nice girl even just a little bit, cos I may not ever bump into her and have the pleasure of conversation with her. That's where the videos come in. Take the example of Francis. Now for those like me who really liked her when her set came along (and it changed my mind from just seeing the sample, so thanks AW). Her gallery had me quite taken with her, she looked so nice in the pics I now hoped for a video. Imagine if there hadn't been one, with her having fun in the kitchen. Wouldn't ya feel you were missing out on something?

And the g/g, I would say I would not be satisfied if there were only pics of things like Jamie and Gabby. Why? Not cos Abby's photos aren't good enough, they're great and blow other people's shit out of the water. But they perform their own function and video performs its, so the photo series together with the VHS/DVD and Web Videos make it all seem more complete.

SF

[Vid Dude]

[B]I don't think you can afford to ignore the trend in what people want ( more videos ) and what you can provide.

I think we can. We currently have a unique position in a small niche market, where we are happy to be. Our stills show real, happy people having fun, which almost no other adult website does. Our videos are insights into the real person - no fakery, no artifice, no coercion, no crap (Every so often we'll go the Francis/Daisy route, but that's just dramatic license), again like no other adult website does.

Instead of being direct competition, we've gone in a different direction - providing a unique twist that isn't available anywhere else, and that, time and again, is what our members seem to appreciate. When we get major complaints from a new member, it seems to be from people who had expectations that we are just like other sites, and that because we are not they don't like us. That is, in a roundabout way, a compliment.

The videos will always be less important to the site than the stills. They're an added bonus. But having said that, the site is always in a state of flux, and we change our ideas often. The videos have evolved to where they are now, and they'll no doubt continue to evolve as the site grows.

[timbit]

I think there is agreement that the site needs vids, and that this is not the part of the business that Abby cares about. It is also expensive both to produce and in bandwidth. It is also unfair to make members who either are not interested in or are unable to download the videos pay more for enhanced video content.
At the same time, longer higher res. videos will attract new members.
None of us of course know all the ins-and-outs of the business and any input from us is unlikely to be much more than a mixture of idle speculation and fantasy. That having been said, here's my idea!

I have seen sites that have membership for stills and a token system for videos. (ITC comes to mind, about as far from AW as you can get content wise but mentioned here only with reference to its delivery system. But if you like pee...) These videos are available in three resolutions with prices to match, up to 640X480. They are often 200Mb and up for the long ones.
Would it not be possible to add longer higher-res vids on a token system by breaking up the DVD's for sale and offering them on line? You already have the content, and some people do not feel comfortable ordering this material by mail order. This would have the added bonus of allowing Aussies to access the DVD content. It would also enable non-members to access paid content, tempting them to join to get the photos.
Of course this assumes that all other content -- stills and small clips remain as-is.

Any thoughts?

Timbit

[catwoman]

To cast my "vote" in Arsby's survey, I prefer looking at images of a quality photo set, but I like the video that the AW site provides too. When I find a particular model attractive in the photos, I enjoy the way that the video allows you to get to know more about the model's personality. For g/g shoots, it really depends on the focus of the set. I agree with SF and that the g/g sets such as Jamie and Gabrielle are alot more fun to which in video than in stills. It can't be easy finding such real, beautiful, natural girls willing and able to pose. The site is to be commended for showing all the girls in a respectful and positive light whether in stills or video.

[kirien]

I come here mostly for the photos, but I LOVE your recent vids too.

However in reading many of your posts I keep seeing you dismiss others suggestions as impractical. This may be the case but you are asking for ideas, people are giving them to you, please respect that gift. You are not required to use it. You are certainly free to, perhaps in a seperate post, enlighten us as to what your limitations are.

Perhaps I'm reading things into your posts that arn't there, but as you point out above, "It took me three years of my life to find out why." Why do you seem to expect your viewers to know why their ideas are impractical.

[Vid Dude]

A couple of years ago, Abby asked me to write up some ideas for shoots, so I did, and over a few days came up with a list of around 60 or so suggestions. Since then we have actually achieved maybe 6 or 7 of them, and sometimes that was just a coincidence.

Impracticality means: difficult to obtain, or very specific, locations; limited opportunities for good angles; too many girls involved; not good for both stills and video; unrealistic reason for scene; cliche; fetish that is too limited an interest.

It's a hard one to know, and Abby (and all of us) are using our own judgement when rejecting or accepting the ideas. If something that you might be able to imagine very precisely doesn't strike our fancy or we can't immediately see a way we can achieve it, then we will put it aside or reject it.

[Abby]

Hi Kirien, welcome to the boards (your first post, I think?)

You have kinda come in at the tail end of an ongoing discussion that spreads over several threads. Have a look at this one:

http://www.abbywinters.com/discus/me...tml?1067507537

Where I give some specific paramaters regarding what these ideas must and must not contain.

o interaction
o a reason for getting naked (can be flimsy, but has to be SOMETHING!)
o awkward poses
o "rules" or restrictions to make the action take time
o a resolution (usually)

I restated it again, slightly differently:

o both models need to get naked progressively (ie, not start nude)
o they have to interact for a reason (ie, have a problem to solve)
o they need to run their hands all over each other (at least - some may be up for more, like kissing)
o can be playful or erotic (or both, but I think it has to be one of them?)
o done with a minimum of props and locations

I can now add more to this as well:

o Cannot be fetish based, but it can have fetish elements
o Needs to appeal to models (not elicit an "ewww!" response)

Ideas that don't conform to these are basically fantasies, which, while nice to share, are not productive. As I think I said elsewhere, I am not a magician that can turn any fantasy into a workable idea.

Hope this clears up where we're coming from.

abby

[avgjoe]

Dear Abby:

I joined your site about 30 days ago. I joined because of the "reality" of this site. The girls look "real", not professional models. The photos were my first reason to join, but I like the vids too!

OK, a suggestion that may not fill all of your parameters. You have one vid where two girls paint swimsuits on each other. If you have a good amateur artist avaiable ( I remember seeing "art student" is one of the bios ), perhaps she would like to paint two or three girls with more artistic swimsuits, ala "Sports Illustrated". I do not know if SI did a video of the (super)models being painted, but this would make a good vid as well as a photo shoot.

What ever you do, I believe you have found your niche. Please continue to evolve as YOU want.