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    AVI demise

    With the announcement of no more AVIs (yea!) are you going to post MPG versions of the videos released in AVI only last week? (Especially the six girls vid)?

    Please say yes.

    #2
    Yes

    Comment


      #3
      What is the difference besides size which i prefer the avis?

      Comment


        #4
        I applaud the decision in favor of MPG and will be watching for the jamsuzvid1 to arrive!!!

        Comment


          #5
          All the Gold videos that are currently only available in AVI, will be remade into MPGs. It may take a bit of time to get through them all, though.

          And Warehouse, the difference with MPGs is that the compression method is older and not near as advanced or high a quality as the AVI DivX codec.

          But the problem with DivX is that we get about ten complaints from members a week that some of them won't play, and instead of them trying to figure it out themselves, they keep asking us if we know why their computers aren't working properly. As if it's our job to be able to figure out from halfway around the world if they have things installed correctly. After two solid years of that, we said, to use the vernacular, 'bugger this for a game of soldiers'.

          Comment


            #6
            Well i have to say VidMan, that i have tried like buggery to get the Avi's to run on DivX,it all ended in frustration and a bit of mouse throwing.
            (+ i woke the wife up)
            some work some don't the codec for WMplayer seems to freeze more often than not. So i Gave up rather than complain to u i thought "hell let it go and don't renew ur membership"
            Proplem with the Mpeg though, File Size.
            not everyone lives in broadband area's i still have to struggle down an old copper cable with an ISP that is restricting the bandwidth to keep it BB custmers happy.
            Is there going to be some down sizing of the file sizes for the Mpeg's?

            Comment


              #7
              For the last few months, the MPGs have been of a comparable size to the AVIs since changing to different Encoder software. An 8Mb DivX AVI is about the same as an 8Mb MPG. But the problem with MPGs is the compression artifacts are uglier. They aren't soft focus blobs, they're hard edged chunks, so even though they occur in approximately the same places, they are much more evident.

              DivX is so much better in every way - it's just not a recognised standard yet, and so is incompatible with too many computers. It's a great shame.

              WMVs are pretty good, but they're probably more problematic than DivX and are really designed specifically for streaming. Quicktime just doesn't cut the filesizes down enough to make them worth it. Real isn't an option.

              It sucks. If I ruled the world, everyone would have free super-broadband, and we'd stream down DVD quality video to everyone. (Of course, it'd cost you $150 a month to subscribe to the site, but then I could do greedy things like that if I ruled the world)

              Comment


                #8
                I feel awful now for having asked you vidman about my computer hassles I was having..i feel im in a small, small way, in some regard, partly rersponsible for AVI's going...because i happen to ask you about my particular computer hassles..sorry.

                Unlike some, I don't sit at home all day opening up computers and checking out the insides...so when a computer related hassle does come up, i feel somewhat helpless. I think writing what you wrote was just a tad insensitive to some of us who arent all computer nerds...and just a tad insulting to paying members...so we needed some help..so what?

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                  #9
                  ps - the help you did give was very much appreciated.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Videoman,

                    Are you going to start using another video format now you are dropping AVI's?

                    I reguarly have to compress video's for web download - so hopefully the following may be useful....

                    Windows Media 9 gives excellent quality playback at relatively low file sizes. It does require the WM Player to be installed - but this is worth it. It's even available for mac users now - I have never had a problem with this codec - unusual for me to say as I am usually completely anti Microsoft!

                    RealVideo 9 also gives excellent quality. I have been completely anti Real up until this version, and I must say I am impressed! It does require a download - particularly annoying as the constantly want you to sign up to the paid version.

                    Quicktime - the piece de la resistance - Sorenson 3 Video codec gives less obtrusive artifacts to MPEG-4 based encoding, although this is being tested by WM9 and RV9. You could also try encoding in the standard MPEG-4 codec - this has the advantage of being compatible with most MPEG-4 players!

                    There are a couple of useful site's on the web - http://graphics.lcs.mit.edu/~tbuehler/video/codecs/ & also http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/codecs-103-1.htm - both have excellent info on codecs - espaecially the last one - all based around MPEG-4 but has screen grabs to highlight artifacts.

                    Keep up the good work....

                    Dave
                    p.s. Glad to see you usually drop the awful Midi soundtracks now....they were seventies porn if I ever was

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Twas a sad day when the sound tracks were dropped, I must have been one the few who actually liked them.

                      How do Cutty, I don't think that VidDude was being insensitive, this has been an issue that has repeatedly reared its head and caused much confussion and frustration on both sides, just check out some of the other threads on the AVI situation and problems. Also, to VidDude's credit, he will always answer and try to help as much as he can, day or night, he always seems to be on hand to help as much as he can even if his advise and help has been repeated in previous threads.

                      Let's just hope that the MPEGS don't start to cause problems.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Yep I have to say my only concerns are about a reduced picture quality and bigger file size.

                        Vidman, you have always seemed to have the solution when I myself had problems with DivX and WMP, it just took a bit of patience and listening on both sides. I thank you for your help and being on hand to give advice.

                        Personally I hope this is not too hasty a decision.

                        SF

                        Comment


                          #13
                          For the record, guys, most of the real hassles came from people offline, not those I help here on the boards. You guys seem to be informative when asked, and grateful when helped, which makes the assistance well worth it.

                          Also, it's not their attitude that frustrates us most of the time (though a hell of a lot rudely threaten to cancel on their first email), it's just the consistent flow of new DivX incompatability problems that are always coming in. (And that it turns out they neglected to tell us something important, like they are running Windows 3.1 on a 486)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Hi all,

                            Just wanted to pipe-in with my thoughts.
                            I have not had many probs with DivX, but on a couple of occasions in the past couple of years it has cacked on me. I have no Idea what the issue was, something to do with "parse exception". It eventually cleared up with new version of DivX when it came out but has popped up with the occasional vid.

                            I do not think you should have to be a certified computer tech to watch downloaded porn vids. I there are that many hassles then perhaps the technology is not mature enough to be relied on, which seem so be your decision.

                            With regards to other, less compressed formats, would it be viable to simply post two different size vids to satisfy both BB and dial-up?

                            Timbit

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hi Videoman,

                              Just a few more thought's for you.....
                              Just like you, I have had countless DivX problems in the past, and that's why I dropped it. If I need high quality, the QuickTime is the way to go - compressing using Sorenson 3. However, not many people want to download 9MB of player! Especially those poor Dial-Up users!

                              For lower file sizes, I have always tried a standard MPEG-4 compression. This doesn't normally yield such a good image as Windows Media 9, but is normally pretty good. If it's too bad - WM9 wins most times. Real 9 can give good results, but again, it's the download of the player that causes most offense.

                              Reading back through your forums, I notice that someone was saying that your MPEG's are NTSC.

                              Firstly, this is never going to give as good quality MPEG as a PAL source. I could say why, but it's not for these forums (email me direct if you want to know). Do you edit in NTSC? It's normal TV practice in those countries lucky enough to have PAL to edit in that, then dub an NTSC copy from the master if you need one.

                              Secondly, if you are encoding NTSC source then the 25FPS you have chosen will cause problems. NTSC runs at around 29.97 FPS (don't ask), and due to it's frame format, compresses best at the following frame rates - 30, 15, 10, 7.5, 6 or 5.

                              Thirdly, your video resoultion is unusual for NTSC, 320x240 being the most common for web usage. The smaller resolution will probably yield better results!

                              If you do happen to be using a PAL source, then I'm afraid all these parameters change.

                              That all said, I would reccommend trying an MPEG-4 format. Even though I favour Mac's, and have always hated Microsoft's products, I must take my hat off to the Windows Media 9 team - they have produced an excellent format!

                              I do appologise to everyone for me getting Teccie on Abby Winters. I am just putting in my tuppence worth in - hopefully to ensure you all get smaller downloads, and a better quality picture. Just imagine how good Elizabeth would look then!

                              bigDave

                              Comment


                                #16
                                I don't know who said we use NTSC, but we don't. We're in PAL. (We do have to convert to NTSC for the DVDs though)

                                The 352x288 res was enforced upon me when I first started doing this stuff, the editing software I was using didn't give me any choice. Even though I've changed software now, I've kept the dimensions for tradition's sake.

                                As for MPEG-4, I'll have a look at it, but what we're achieving by resorting to MPEG-1 is absolute compatability by lowest common denominator, which certainly has mucho appeal in itself.

                                Thanks for the advice - I wish you had been around when we were first starting out with all this. It probably would've saved a bit of hassle.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Why?

                                  Why not offer both. Yes its more work, but if AVI doesn't work for them, why don't they just download the MPG instead? Perhaps making it clear somwhere that if the AVI doesn't work for them, they try the MPG and offer no support for the AVI. If they wan't to get AVI working, let them figure it out - its not exactly difficult. AVIs didn't work for me at first, either. They (just about) worked in DivXPlayer and not at all in Windows Media Player, but with some perserverance I got them going in WinMP and got rid of DivXPlayer altogether.

                                  And another thing - I like the considerably smaller DivX files as I'm on dial-up and can't get broadband/adsl, whatever, around here.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Silly question time: Why not just have both? Why not offer each video as MPEG and AVI, with a disclaimer saying that AVIs may not be compatible with the downloader's software, and that if they have any problems to try the MPEG instead?

                                    If you're intent on sacrificing quality for universality, then I beg you to offer an alternative for those who'd prefer the reverse.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      I totally agree with Videoman to move away from AVI's. It's an old format that is no longer supported by it's manufacturers - Microsoft. They have moved across to Windows Media - completely re-written to match the capabilities of modern computers (AVI predates Pentium chips!).

                                      However, just to offer MPEG-1 files on it's own, based purely on compatibility, is a bit of a cop-out. Lots of people still have to rely on dial-up connections, and downloading these video's must be a complete nightmare.

                                      May I offer a couple of ideas to keep people happy...
                                      1) Offer the video in two formats - MPEG-1 as now, and Windows Media 9 - It IS worth the upgrade - people will thank you for it! Yes it's a big download initially (but smaller than most of your MPEG-1's), but it's also freely available on those cd's stuck to pc magazines...
                                      2) Offer a preview video - for this I would recommend Flash MX. About 90% of web users worldwide can already view it (compared with about 60% for windows media). And at low/medium resolutions, the end result is excellent. It only really needs to be a thumbnail video - just to get the idea of the content - it's not quite good enough to relace the AVI's though!

                                      This would allow us users to maximise our bandwidth into getting the content that we want. I don't like having to download MegaBytes worth of video - but for me, the AVI's on a mac don't really work. It's especially frustrating to then find that the video isn't that great - sorry videoman! We all have our own tastes...

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Sorry videoman,

                                        I've just read that last message back - what I meant to say was that SOME of your video's aren't to my liking - some of them rock!

                                        If you need any technical help where to go with the video's, then feel free to email me directly. Like you, I have years of experience in this, and other New Media technologies!

                                        Keep up the good work.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          I missed the announcement about the demise of AVI files - are they going to be deleted or just not added to?

                                          Hopefully the 2nd..

                                          Re the corruptiion of the AVI files - I tried downloading some last night using a download accelerator - and they all appeared to download ok but they had corrupt headers. But if I download them without using the accelerator then there is no problem with them and they play ok. Could this be the cause of some peoples problems?

                                          Paul

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            I'll miss AVIs, especially as I'm just about to upgrade to a new CPU, vid card and to Windows XP. I've also had no problems with any of the AVIs I've d'led from this site on my current set up (Win 98 - 1st Edition, 700 MHz Athlon, 3 (maybe 4?) yr-old vid card). The only vids I've not been able to play on this are those encoded in WMV 9 - so none from this site - and that's because MS doesn't make a version of this for the original edition of Win 98. I've found that DivX files play best on the DivX player.

                                            I appreciate why you want to switch to MPEG only, Videoman, but from my point of view, going back to an ancient technology like MPEG 1 is a retrograde step. Newish graphics cards contain all sorts of gubbins to maximise the quality of playback from DivX, Realplayer etc. None will do this in the same way for chunky old MPEGs.

                                            As several posters have suggested, why can't you continue to offer both with the proviso that you don't offer tech support on the AVIs (or which ever modern format you choose to go with). Most users who've updated their computers any time since the millenium should be able to cope with the more modern format and appreciate the better visual quality, the rest will have MPEGs.

                                            BTW, for me, the photos are more important than the videos. I d/l most photosets, but only about half of the vids, so it's not an issue which is going to affect my re-subscribing. I don't know, however, whether someone who likes the high-quality DivX vids in particularly might not feel differently.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Bigdave
                                              [B]Windows Media 9 gives excellent quality playback at relatively low file sizes. It does require the WM Player to be installed - but this is worth it. It's even available for mac users now - I have never had a problem with this codec - unusual for me to say as I am usually completely anti Microsoft!
                                              WMP is indeed an excellent format in many ways, but when it was suggested a while back we received a barrage of complaints both on the forum and via email, people saying that anything to increase MS market share is evil, and we're selling out, and blah blah.

                                              RealVideo 9 also gives excellent quality. I have been completely anti Real up until this version, and I must say I am impressed! It does require a download - particularly annoying as the constantly want you to sign up to the paid version.
                                              Real is one of the worst offending spyware programs out there. No fucking way are we going to use real media, and I don;t care how good it gets. I understand the Pay version is less offencive, but we cannot expect our customers to have to fork out more for a video player for us.

                                              Quicktime - the piece de la resistance - Sorenson 3 Video codec gives less obtrusive artifacts to MPEG-4 based encoding, although this is being tested by WM9 and RV9. You could also try encoding in the standard MPEG-4 codec - this has the advantage of being compatible with most MPEG-4 players!
                                              QT is interesting, but it involves a download for our customers. That intoduces another link a chain of things that is already too long. More things to go wrong. We're trying to simplfy things, not make them more complex.

                                              What we need is the lowest common denominator. NOT a format that's good for 80% of people, but a format that is good for EVERYONE. We cannot make a format available and not support it - that's crazy.

                                              Our new MPG's will be similar in size to the current AVI's. We will not be rebuilfing the old MPGs. I know they're big, but they work. We plan to remake the videos we have available as AVI-only (most of the Gold ones) as MPG.

                                              To be honest, this issue is NOT about the customers - which is an unsusal thing to say for us here, cos most things are - it's an issue for US. We are devoting too much time to support for videos, and havinbg to give refunds for people who cannot view AVI's (After we have spent hours supporting them).

                                              abby

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Of course, two formats - or hell, five formats - is the ultimate method.

                                                But the facts are, _everyone_ can play MPGs. We have never had a support problem with them. It seems that certainly all computers out of the box can play them.

                                                DivX, in addition to being a support nightmare, we're supposed to pay for licnese for DivX, and they don't give license it for Audult usage, so DivX is definiately on the way out. The question is, what are we going to use instead?

                                                I like MPG. For a minor quality hit (or slightly bigger filesize), it's other benefits far outweigh the disadvantages.

                                                WMV is an option, but I am sick of the abuse I get for shooting models with dirty fingernails - WMVs is a whole new can of worms. Do I just tell the complainers to fuck off, and give refunds?

                                                QT intrigues me. It's closely linked to apple, which I hate... but at least Mac users would not complain so much...

                                                abby

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  I've never had any problems with the vids, but for me this site is all about the photography, the vids are there to give us a brief insight into each model, so I'm not expecting DVD quality videos, but fully appreciate the vids all the same.

                                                  Abby, for those that complain about the vids do they ever tell you which sites are better and why??? because in my experience of other sites which pride themselves on their video content are no better than this site and I fully believe you get unfair complaints about the video content and quality on your site.

                                                  You guys need to do what's best for yourself and choose the option which gives you the least amount of headaches. If this site was purely about the vids I could understand the call for numerous types of vids. I fully support the stance you're taking about this issue being for you and not us the customers as it's you guys that have to deal with all the shite and complaints.

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Hooray for "the lowest common denominator". I've long been a proponent of K.I.S.S. (keep it simple, stupid!) and MPG's work.
                                                    I've gotten in over my head trying to deal with DivX, being someone who doesn't know what the difference is between a codex and a player. Glad to see DivX on their way out.
                                                    For me, the vids are a bonus. I'm here for the still photography. (and the models, of course!).
                                                    Should one of the techies here feel like coming by the house and getting one of these fancy schemes up and running for me, I'd feel much obliged. In the meantime, a junky Ford that gets me to work every day beats a beautiful car that lives in the dealers garage.

                                                    Thanks for everything, AW and crew!
                                                    Chuckles

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      I think I'd prefer MPG and WMV if the AVI is to go. People have been saying here that WMP 9 is actually decent for once, so.

                                                      As for the videos, don't listen to these guys, just keep the variety of different ones coming. You know : talking, anecdotes, masturbation, fun(ny) setups, clips from g/g DVDs etc. You guys do seem to put some time and effort into them. Vidman does a good job and as Jamie is also doing more and more filming, the video content is a good compliment to the brilliant photo sets.

                                                      SF

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Hi Guys,

                                                        Just a personal data point, and nothing more. I have a Mac... but I run Linux on it. Of the various formats being touted, I can only watch DiVX and MPEG. WMV9 is not available for Linux PPC, Quicktime (Sorensen 3) is not available for Linux PPC, Real9 is not available for Linux PPC (although the Helix player and the Ogg codecs are).

                                                        This isn't meant to be an angry (or whiny) post, but realistically I'm not changing from an OS that serves me well, or buying a Windows machine just to view porn videos... even if the videos are from a site that's one of my very favorites and I would miss those videos quite alot :-)

                                                        Monty

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          Sorry, me again,

                                                          What a can of worms this has opened up. I am intrigued by Abby's comments - how do you intend to compress down MPEG-1 to a similar size to your old DivX AVI's?

                                                          As for just supporting the lowest common demominator - this confuses me. I TOTALLY agree that MPEG-1 can be viewed on every computer - it's a great video format. But one that was developed for video CD's, not for delivery over the internet. That's why you get such big file sizes - working against the lowest common demominator - those people who still have dial-up access.

                                                          As for people being anti Windows Media - that's just crazy - you have been putting up AVI video's for ages - and that's Microsoft's own format as well. Do they just hate the word 'Windows'?

                                                          I completely forgot about Real's policy on being Spyware. So, forget everything I said about them! A word of note to Windows Media 8 users - this is Spyware as well - details of everything you watch with it is being fed back to Bill Gates! As far as I can tell, this was removed from Windows Media 9 - due to lots of bad publicity - so I heartily recommend updating! You will also get much better playback - so it's all a winner.

                                                          As DivX, Windows Media & Real are all adaptions of MPEG-4, could you try posting a raw MPEG-4 file (.mp4)? This should play fine in any of the compatible players - maximising the number of people who could download these files - lowering your bandwidth (& thus costs), and giving people a visually better solution?

                                                          I completely sympathise with you on having to provide support for video deployment! I have to do it as well, so I can only imagine what it must be like with such a large user base. You could offer a technical support page on help with these files - things to try etc. This would hopefully minimise the people that you loose because of difficulties playing your videos. At least you would still be able to offer them the MPEG-1's.

                                                          Keep up the good work. I'm off to see the latest Jamie & Suzanna instalment. I do hope it's as good as the 1st one!

                                                          Dave

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            Just wanted to comment, sorenson and real codecs are avalible for linux.
                                                            They require a little hacking on the linux users part. I know Xiphmont is running Linux on a PPC (which can't do sorenson3) but he is a pretty rare case. I have yet to find a codec I couldn't play on linux without a little hacking. Win2k is my main PC but I have a linux desktop and several servers. You can't beat Windows for gaming and media support, sorry linux people img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/sad.gif

                                                            http://ftp3.mplayerhq.hu/MPlayer/DOCS.bak/codecs.html

                                                            I don't care what codec you use as long as it's not REAL, which I think you already said it definetly wouldn't be. I think any mpeg 4 variant would be just fine for me.

                                                            ZiN

                                                            Comment

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