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    Opinions and bodies

    This is actually a continuation to a series of responses within the "introduce yourself" thread (Some of you likely saw the last part of it (below)).

    If you would be so kind, I would like to hear your opinions on the views expressed therein.
    What do you think of the comment made by Philos (that the people viewing this site are NOT "dirty old men")? ... and as an extension, how does Abby's site set itself apart of such a view (or make itself part of it)?

    Please forgive any poor grammar... it is late over here in the frigid north, and I must be off to bed for I have school in the morning.

    Hasta mañana.

    POSTED EARLIER (BY ME):
    I actually agree with Philos.
    Many people find that being "experienced connoisseurs of the female form" (as Philos so eloquently put it) somehow equates with being depraved.
    Now, I may just be trying to fool myself (because in all honesty my hormones are usually raging), but I do consider this site different. It seems that the models have the independence and lifestyle to merit their choice to be displayed in the buff as truly their own and not because they have been exploited in some way or form.
    When I first joined this site it was because one of the models reminded me of an ex, and I soon came to realize that I could truly appreciate their bodies, and not simply gawk at them for inane reasons (boobies, etc...) as I might have when I was younger and watched my first porno flick (you guys know the ones I mean… the kind with the upbeat elevator music playing in the backround).
    A shape so instinctual in it's subtle seducing ways that we mimic it in cars and motorcycles is in no way "dirty," but quite amazing... far from amorphous... yet quite universal.

    Anyway... what I am trying to say is the female body rocks! Anyone who denies it is only fooling themselves!

    ~Jess

    #2
    Hi JesseL,

    Originally posted by JesseL
    Many people find that being "experienced connoisseurs of the female form" (as Philos so eloquently put it) somehow equates with being depraved.
    Now, I may just be trying to fool myself (because in all honesty my hormones are usually raging), but I do consider this site different. It seems that the models have the independence and lifestyle to merit their choice to be displayed in the buff as truly their own and not because they have been exploited in some way or form.
    I'm not sure this discussion will get anywhere unless "depraved" is defined. Clearly it is not depraved to admire a naked woman's body in an aesthetic way, nor to regard her body as belonging to a human being worthy of respect. This site encourages both attitudes.

    The question is whether it is always depraved to lust after such a naked woman, or only if we fail to appreciate her aesthetically, or fail to respect her as a person.

    Another consideration is the woman's attitude: if she displays her intimate gynaecology in public, what is she expecting us to feel? Having decided to expose herself in this way, she would probably hope to make us as horny as possible - that is her measure of success. Is that depraved?

    Incidentally, at your age, shouldn't you be out chasing live girls instead of reading this rubbish?

    - Philos

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Philos
      Another consideration is the woman's attitude: if she displays her intimate gynaecology in public, what is she expecting us to feel? Having decided to expose herself in this way, she would probably hope to make us as horny as possible - that is her measure of success. Is that depraved?
      Ah, but then there's the question of what motivated her to dispaly herself. If it's because she enjoys giving pleasure then we have lots of consenting adults and can reasonably argue that it's no one else's business. But what if she has been driven beyond her preferred standards by economic necessity?

      Then of course there are those who would argue that no woman could reasonably make a rational decision to display herself, and that she must in some way have been perverted by the patriarchy; I once witnessed an argument between some stauch feminists and some strippers on exactly this point ....

      Philos, do we have to be young to go and chase live women? Or can anyone try?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Bob
        But what if she has been driven beyond her preferred standards by economic necessity?
        It's easy to tell whether the model is enjoying herself or not. At the sites run by women the models seem really happy. At some of the other sites their behaviour looks forced, and I wouldn't give those sites my custom. But then I am denying the models the only thing they want - cash. It's too difficult for me, I'm only a philosophy student.

        Then of course there are those who would argue that no woman could reasonably make a rational decision to display herself
        I've noticed that people who embrace an ideology often believe that nobody else can think for themselves, which is ironic when you think about it

        Philos, do we have to be young to go and chase live women? Or can anyone try?
        Well we can try...

        -P

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Philos
          It's too difficult for me, I'm only a philosophy student.
          Ah - stick in there. I think Philosophy has proved to be the most economically useful subject I've ever studied. Many years on it's still the basis of much of my income!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Bob

            Then of course there are those who would argue that no woman could reasonably make a rational decision to display herself, and that she must in some way have been perverted by the patriarchy; I once witnessed an argument between some stauch feminists and some strippers on exactly this point ....

            Philos, do we have to be young to go and chase live women? Or can anyone try?
            Err... I was in no way trying to allude to the idea that you guys were old.

            Sorry if I offended anyone!


            As for feminism, I believe today’s feminism is the result of a general inferiority complex brought about through the notion that power had to be given to women by men.

            The problem arises as feminism ends up becoming an admission of the actual failure of feminine self-actualization in the face of who they see as the major external loci of control (men). In their eyes, power was handed to them by men, and while in an attempt to avoid cognitive dissonance (basically going against one's beliefs) this delusion persists. Ironically the only way to have gained rights was to appeal to men, as (in a general sense) they do hold most legislative pull in today’s world (although that is changing).

            That aside, many men have always believed in the rights of females (me being one of them) insofar as they do not overstep their means (both sexes are limited to the space they can occupy in the opposites sphere of ability).

            This is speaking only of feminists, and not where economic instability forces women into the streets. In general, women display themselves not because of the illusory battle between the sexes, but rather to attract a mate.

            We like to think of ourselves as being completely aware of all of our physical states, but in actuality a lot of instinct still persists. Some of us become insulted by this fact and therefore look for justification (usually in the form of scapegoating).

            We are not so far above the ape as we would like to think.

            Yikes... kind of serious for a nudie site huh?

            Take care,
            Jess

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by JesseL
              We are not so far above the ape as we would like to think.
              Absolutely correct, only 1.6% difference in the genetic code of human & chimpanzee.
              And it's known that Bonobos do wank the whole day, no joke.

              Lxm

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by JesseL
                As for feminism, I believe today’s feminism is the result of a general inferiority complex brought about through the notion that power had to be given to women by men.
                You should try saying that to some of the girls I know, I don't think they would let you leave alive.

                Dave
                Last edited by Darth Dave; 8 January 2005, 11:44 AM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Luxman
                  Absolutely correct, only 1.6% difference in the genetic code of human & chimpanzee.
                  And it's known that Bonobos do wank the whole day, no joke.

                  Lxm
                  I'm always struck by the way that different aspects of our nearest relatives,gorilla,chimp and bonobo society,have similarities to different human societies,or even within the same society.

                  My simplistic understanding is that gorillas have a patriarchal pattern,with the alpha male providing protection,dispute resolution,and genetic material.

                  Chimps have a more matriarchal,cooperative approach,though with our own tendency to kill enemies.

                  Bonobos also adopt a cooperative pattern,but use sex as a currency and an instrument for social cohesion,including dispute resolution.(I believe every permutation has been observed,with the exception of mother/son).

                  On the question of human males admiring human females,and of human females 'displaying',it's probably worth reminding ourselves that in other areas of the animal kingdom,for instance birds,it's the male that's the more 'colourful' and the females who do the looking.

                  .

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by calliope
                    Bonobos also adopt a cooperative pattern,but use sex as a currency and an instrument for social cohesion,including dispute resolution.(I believe every permutation has been observed,with the exception of mother/son).
                    And Bonobos are THE ONLY animals who have sex face to face.

                    Lxm

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by JesseL
                      As for feminism, I believe today’s feminism is the result of a general inferiority complex brought about through the notion that power had to be given to women by men.
                      Well, that sounds like a load of bollocks!!!!! I’m not a feminist, no reason to be. In any case I think some feminist have lost the plot somewhat. I heard one case where a very beautiful but nevertheless ardent feminist (Swedish I believe) insisted that her boyfriend sat down when taking a piss. This made the process of peeing more equitable between the sexes. She felt that man’s ability to piss standing up and in just having to undo a zipper gave an unfair advantage to men. Mind you any man who would have acceded to this demand in my eyes would be regarded as total wimp rather than a “new age man”

                      “New age man”, what sorta worthless git is that? Fuck the concept of men getting in touch with their femininity and so be caring and sharing. Lets face it; if women are being honest give us real men any day!!!! Real men get things done. I mean, can you see John Wayne storming Iwo Jima beach on a diet of Quiche and Diet Coke??

                      Whilst I believe that I should get paid exactly the same rate as a male colleague with the same qualifications and degree of competency, I also accept that there are some things that women should not be involved with in the name of equality, military front line service for example.

                      If feminists stop to think, we actually have the power though we exercise it in subtle ways. I love courteous and chivalrous men. I know some men are wary in opening a door for a lady for fear of being called “sexist”. That’s crap. Getting someone to open a door or give up a seat without asking, now that’s real power!!!!!

                      Lastly, some of you may have noticed that I exposed my shameful parts some while ago. I did not do it for money. I did it simply because I’m a pathological show-off. I’m not slut who sleeps around either. I have always been a one-man woman and have no intention of changing. Someone wrote to me recently saying that thousands of men must have wanked to my pictures. I would be surprised if the figure went beyond single figures, but nevertheless the fact that I had some sort of power to make men wank is a turn-on in itself.
                      Last edited by Mrs Roops; 8 January 2005, 12:51 PM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        My dear Mrs. Roops,

                        Reading your posts full of intelligent opinions is always a revelation for me.

                        It's too sad that we don't see you more often here.



                        Lxm

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I know it's been said before but Roops is one lucky guy. Now hopefully you won't mind, but I'm off to search the boards for your pics.

                          Dave

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Good heavens, Mrs. Roops, you sond like my ex — "Getting someone to open a door or give up a seat without asking, now that’s real power!" I have to disagree with both Jessel and you. True feminism is the belief that women are equal to men in worth as human beings. Now, of course, some "feminists" have gone a bit overboard, like your above-mentioned acquaintance; some use the term to mask their own greed for power; some use it to mask their misandrony — hence the term "feminism" being distorted and perverted into an epithet. But still the original principle is sound.

                            Humans are, by nature, a matriarchal society. No matter how much men try to keep up the illusion of the "patriarchy", those men still have to go home to their wives, and who do you think really run the households? When you get right down to it, men subjugate women out of fear. We (as a sex, mind you — I'm not saying I personally behave like this) try to keep women from positions of power for the same reason we try to keep them out of our sports: we're afraid that they'll be better at it than we are.

                            Which leads to our greatest, most primal fear: obsolescence.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Darth Dave
                              Now hopefully you won't mind, but I'm off to search the boards for your pics.
                              May I give a hand?

                              You should have a look here.

                              Lxm

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Luxman
                                May I give a hand?

                                You should have a look here.

                                Lxm
                                To Luxman thanks for the help, and to Mrs Roops a huge thanks for posting the pics they are awesome.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Luxman
                                  My dear Mrs. Roops,

                                  It's too sad that we don't see you more often here.
                                  Ah!!, I did write a few days ago; it was normal every day stuff about bottom-wiping, faecal residue and a humorous discourse about Pjay’s plaid skirt fetish. For reasons that I cannot remember I also included personal anecdotal information about my very limited experience with watersports and me drinking a jet stream of my husband’s urine. A standard post in other words.

                                  Unfortunately someone pounded the delete button faster than a pneumatic drill and removed the watersports reference. A few hours later the complete post with several others was completely culled. Christ, I nearly permanently migrated to a lace-making forum. They know how to live!!!!!!

                                  Incidentally, I very recently had a very fruity conversation here with the deliciously dry Fancier. Top Geezer!!! (NB go to the top of the page)

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Mrs R, I think off-topicness was what got your post toasted more than anything. In this forum I doubt it'd have been a problem.

                                    Anyway, how about renaming this forum Miscellaneous (or General) Chatter? Mundane (ordinary, banal) kinda gives the wrong impression when really all that's meant is a place for discussion of non-website related stuff.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Who said girls can't pee standing up? Haven't you seen the video of, hmm, is it Jade T?
                                      As for Mrs. Roops' delightful pics, thanks Luxman, but I don't need another hand.
                                      I followed Mrs. Roops' link to the thread on the other site, and wondered Mrs. R, if you need additional research material. I'd be happy to supply photographic and anecdotal information.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Mrs Roops
                                        Christ, I nearly permanently migrated to a lace-making forum. They know how to live!!!!!!
                                        Wonder if that's where Quartz has gone to.If so,I hope he'll reconsider.His penetrating logic,and pithy one-liners are a loss to the boards.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Howie348
                                          ...thanks Luxman, but I don't need another hand.
                                          Oh, don't say that. Could be helpful: One on the mouse, one for the sandwich or beer glass and one for,...well,...you decide.

                                          Lxm

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Howie, thanks for your offer!! As you may have read at the other forum, I do like to view cocks. However they must be interesting cocks or the anecdotal information must be interesting or amusing. I used to post on PYN sites but stopped doing so as I was getting pics in return of men (usually young guys and normally single - go figure) showing huge erect cocks in front of an image of me. Never an average size cock. I think these guys assumed that I would swoon in delight, go weak at the knees and release a flood of girl-juice at the sight of a large prick. These guys were all under the impression that by fucking me (or any one else) they would be doing me a favour simply because they had a large dick. In other words sex to them was not about relationships or about giving me a good time. The sex act was simply an exercise in worshipping their cocks, something they had through accident of birth and not due to any talent or skill.

                                            To me a large penis is a pain in the arse, both metaphorically and literally. I did have an ex-bf who had a big penis. Sex with him was not enjoyable for many reasons. Its probably wrong for me to base my personal opinions on one bad experience but large penises simply do not impress me!!

                                            If you want to show the world your penis and have something interesting to say about it, especially if you are an older guy (you may have guessed, I prefer older guys) then put it to PYN site and give us the link. GOW does have a section where you can post a "favourite pic" but its gotta be interesting!!!

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Mrs Roops
                                              I exposed my shameful parts some while ago
                                              With respect, wrong adjective. Interesting. Furry. Private. Public ....

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Mrs Roops
                                                a humorous discourse about Pjay’s plaid skirt fetish.
                                                Damn, missed that.

                                                Could we not have a policy of 'splitting' threads where they go off-topic rather than culling?

                                                Of course, this post is probably now off-topic, though as the title is 'Opinions & Bodies' I may have just squeezed in under the wire!

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  We cull only when it's a topic we don't really feel comfortable with or support. Mrs Roops is really good at going off on such tangents. It's an impressive skill, she could teach classes in it. Actually, there are probably many classes she could teach that a lot of our members would sign up for. And I'm not talking about dentistry.

                                                  We do split off threads where we can see a natural break and it seems worthy of its own thread, but we don't always indicate when we do it, so some people miss that it's happened.

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Dear Mrs. Roops,
                                                    Pardon my ignorance. You said I should post on PYN site, but I have no idea what that is. I googled PYN, but I don't think your PYN is Program for Young Negotiators or Pittsburgh Youth Network. Please enlighten me as to what I'm looking for.
                                                    I am an older gentleman; that was my intention, to give you information similar to what Fancier provided, not to brag about my size.

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Hi Howie,

                                                      PYN = Post Yourself Nude

                                                      There are lots of sites around where people who want to, can post naughty images of themselves.

                                                      Lxm

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Thanks, Luxman. I found another thread where Mrs. Roops herself, I believe, suggested a couple of sites.

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          Howie, I am so terribly sorry if you were under the impression that I thought you were only bragging. Reading my last post I now realise that I could have chosen my words better. Once again, I am terribly sorry. I have also sent a Private Message to you and have grovelled accordingly.

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            Philos

                                                            Deprive // v.tr.
                                                            1 (usu. foll. by of) strip, dispossess; debar from enjoying (illness deprived him of success)
                                                            2 (as deprived adj.) a (of a child etc.) suffering from the effects of a poor or loveless home. b (of an area) with inadequate housing, facilities, employment, etc.

                                                            debar v.tr. (debarred, debarring) (foll. by from)
                                                            exclude from admission or from a right; prohibit from an action (was debarred from entering).

                                                            Is it all right that I can copy words from the dictionary? If it isn't, too late I just done it. I have to include debar in it as well.

                                                            All women to me have a right to show or not to show their bodies to the public. It’s their choice. Other people don't own it. Their life not ours. If she dose not want to show it off, so be it. It’s her own right. For the women show of their bodies good on them and I don't care they do it for money or not. That means she loves her body and figure and she want to share the good news (so to speak) to any hot-blooded man or woman who want to see it and love it. In some cases she has no choice but to do it to pay her own way through life or to get a hand up instead of getting a hand out.

                                                            Correct me if I am wrong. I thought the feminist movement is to help women to have a fair go. To be equal to their male counterpart in a way. Equal pay equal opportunity through the work place. The feminist try to stop this in this example; She been working hard in this company for a long time not getting anywhere and her boss is not giving her any slack. Then she says this to her work mates ‘ I want to be second in charge of this company. And I don’t care how I get there.” So she works hard and tries to make her boss happy. But her boss doses not care about her and run her until she gives up. Then she says something to herself ‘That’s it! I can’t keep going like this forever. I going up to him and give him my mind’. The she storms up to her boss’s office and gives him her own mind. Then looks at her and say this ‘If you want to go anywhere in this company you have to give a little if you know what I mean.” Then she gives up to her boss’s whim. Next day she is second in charge in the company. That is what the feminist movement is about. But they went overboard and give men hell. A lot of women stayed single because of that through that time and they still are.


                                                            There are places where women not suppose to be in the mans world. One good example is in the front line of an army shooting other shoulders dead with their guns. In a second line in the army yes like a nurse or mapping out the moves where the front lines is. Sorry Mrs. Roops that is too late. Its already been done. In WWII in the Russian Army and Air force. If any don’t believe me get these books and read them. These books are written by the same author and publish by Penguin “Stalingrad and Berlin. The downfall 1945.” Those books are eye openers. Also during WWII, women built planes, jeeps, trucks, tanks, and ammo including bombs and putting charges in it. Also they test fly fighter planes in the US and in the UK. Also they farmed, drive buses and so on. This happened between 1939 to 1945, way before the feminist. When the men came home they stop doing and look after their man after the war.

                                                            If there are more women like you Mrs. Roops, This world will be a better place to live in because you are a one-man woman and you love your hubby very much.

                                                            From
                                                            GCG71 'Living in the sunniest state in Australia'

                                                            Comment

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