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    Luxman and courtesy

    I was saddened the way the conscientious Luxman was recently criticised for making a point of welcoming new members . I think Luxman is very sweet for doing no more than making new people feel at home in what at times must appear to a cliquey forum.

    It’s a sad world where good manners and civility are dismissed so disparagingly.

    #2
    One of the best things that Luxman's welcomes do, apart from create a friendly atmosphere, is they encourage the new posters to continue to contribute. A very useful service.

    Keep on doing it just as you have, Luxman.

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      #3
      I'm not sure if I should keep on, it increases my post number.

      Shit, yet one more.

      Lxm

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        #4
        I find it strange that somebody would not want to be welcomed by a moderator (or anybody) at the boards here.

        Our friend Luxman is always very helpful to anybody, in fact I appreciate it to find him usually "just around the corner" that is what a "moderator" should be anyway, IMHO. If that is going for the cost of post counts, hmmmmm ....... make you a PM next time

        Yealith

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          #5
          Keep up the welcoming comments Luxman!

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            #6
            Ahh, so this is where the group hugs take place ...

            By all means, Luxman, if everybody likes it, don't let me discourage you (I know you won't). Like I said, "I'm probably the only one who feels that way " - so no real surprise there, since I'm probably the only one among the regular members who has done a fair bit of moderating and therefore looks at bulletin boards from quite a different angle from time to time (and certainly in recent days). And because that post was made entirely from the viewpoint of moderating/moderation, that post should be read entirely and exclusively in that context.

            The large majority of boards (even the friendly ones) are slightly Darwinistic in nature (some are downright cut-throat in nature, actually): if someone new shows up and fails to make an impression (i.e.: fails to generate a response, or triggers only a negative response), he/she usually drops out after a while. To me, that is not a loss. It is simply an expression of board dynamics (or group dynamics, since the same thing happens in neighbourhoods, clubs, school classes and the workplace). Some people get in, some people don't, and I believe that that is a healthy and normal development in creating a community. That is without taking a moderator's special role into account, just a general view of 'board life'.

            When it comes to the specific role of a moderator, I feel that being too nice and welcoming actually gets in the way of being a moderator and enforcing the rules. When I say "too nice", I mean that in relation to being someone who will have to be not so nice sooner or later - otherwise, there is no such thing as being "too nice", of course. The same goes for the other comments I made: almost everything Luxman does (let's summarise that as 'being very visible') is very unusual for a board moderator, and it may get in the way of being an effective one. I'm not talking about moving or merging threads or changing a topic's name, I'm talking about telling someone you welcomed one day to 'cut that shit out or else' the next day .. To put it in cliché form: "familiarity breeds contempt" .. hence the back-slapping bouncer simile. To me, being a nice moderator is ultimately a contradiction in terms. That is, unless wields limited power actually means 'only performs thread moving and merging, and topic renaming' . In that case this is the first bulletin board that has a working good cop/bad cop system in place . Congratulations!

            Anyway: given that very specific context, I believe my comments were fair and topical, not dismissive or disparaging. Not intended that way, anyway. Fairness does not always equal niceness, and what people do (being a moderator, or commenting on moderating) should not be confused with how people really are (a nice guy, really, on both counts).

            P.S.: someone really should have noticed that a vegetarian used the expression 'fair game' - and got away with it.
            Last edited by Quartz; 15 January 2005, 06:16 AM. Reason: 'Darwinian' .. what was I thinking?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Quartz
              When it comes to the specific role of a moderator, I feel that being too nice and welcoming actually gets in the way of being a moderator and enforcing the rules. When I say "too nice", I mean that in relation to being someone who will have to be not so nice sooner or later - otherwise, there is no such thing as being "too nice", of course. The same goes for the other comments I made: almost everything Luxman does (let's summarise that as 'being very visible') is very unusual for a board moderator, and it may get in the way of being an effective one. I'm not talking about moving or merging threads or changing a topic's name, I'm talking about telling someone you welcomed one day to 'cut that shit out or else' the next day .. To put it in cliché form: "familiarity breeds contempt" .. hence the back-slapping bouncer simile. To me, being a nice moderator is ultimately a contradiction in terms.
              Unusually, I’ll have to disagree with you there. I see a moderator’s role more that as a manager (and I am one elsewhere and jeeze, if that board’s members could see what I put here and elsewhere!!!!!) . Like all good people managers, one can be friendly, and welcoming and at the same time exercise discipline. The archetypal steel fist in a velvet glove if you will. Board members will also be more confident to contribute knowing that kindly helpful Mod will crack the whip if someone else is bullying them. The concept of providing a loving, welcoming and friendly environment underscored by firm but fair discipline is nothing new. After all, isn’t that what good parenting is all about?
              Last edited by Mrs Roops; 15 January 2005, 02:17 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                I post this to 2 threads cos I reply to both.

                My dear Quartz (this is not meant ironically),

                I know you had no doubt that I'll reply to your thoughts, so after a short waiting period to let the dust and the mud settle down, here we are.

                First of all, let me thank you for all the positive work and help you have provided to all of us, Abby, Vid Dude, the team and me. I'm always open to constructive criticism, I'm happy to be able to learn and I accept the views of other, maybe more experienced people.

                I'll not go back to December 23rd when the "catastrophe" started. I didn't edit or remove the post, so leave me out of that discussion.

                Shortly after my "nomination" we had a PM exchange about some errors I did in English and you told me how to behave as a moderator. I'm always thankful for help and I try to get the best out of it, especially with the language issues I've learned a lot over the time. Thanks again.

                Your advice, what a moderator does and what he shouldn't do, was welcome too, and I accept all you wrote, but it's MY very own choice to adopt it or not. It's not on you to impose your opinion or your wishes.

                You're right, it's not so easy to run and moderate a public forum. But, hey, this is not a public forum. The (write) access to this forum is for members only, not for everyone. For paying members, it's like a private club. This forum is owned by Abby Winters, and she alone decides how to run and to moderate it. She tells me if I'm doing well or wrong, and nobody else has to jump in here, well except Vid Dude. In my eyes the rules of moderation here may be different to what you know.

                About my visibility and post frequency.
                You say a moderator should step back and stay in the background. Your opinion. On all the boards I read frequently, the moderators are ultra-present, perhaps the boards you run or moderate are different.

                You're bothered by the frequency of my posts? Your problem! You think my posts add little or nothing? Don't read them! I consider these posts as what we call "small talk". Not too much sense, but important for the relationship between human beings and their communication, real or virtual. I'm sure, if there was more small talk in the world, there were less trouble and wars everywhere. I understand now why you don't like marketing people, cos finally they produce small talk to sell. I don't mind my post count (anymore, at the beginning of my membership it was a thrill to get it up) and you should do the same.

                About the "we"
                Yes, I say "we" when I speak about AW staff, and I MEAN IT. Ok I'm not paid, not with money, but I'm so free to count me to the team, and it's not at you to be upset about that. I'm asking myself if it could be that you're a bit envious.

                About the welcome
                Yes I enjoy welcoming new members, and I don't think at all that it's old. The personal welcome creates a mood of confidence for the "starter" and makes him (or her) feel comfortable. The reactions of those people show clearly that it is appreciated. BTW: I did this long time before I became a moderator and as far as I know it was one of the reasons why I was asked to be a moderator.

                I don't think that slapping people's backs undermines my authority. You know, I'm running a medium size business since 15 years now (wow such a long time), and beside other tasks I manage what's called "human resources" (I hate that term). I hire and I fire. And can assure you, every new employee gets his slapping and a warm "welcome on board", but when there are troubles coming up, I can be pretty unaccommodating and authoritarian. Be sure, until now I have fired more people than you'll ever hire, and all were personally welcomed by me.

                I don't need hugs from anybody (well, perhaps from Abby and Vid Dude) and to discourage me there has more to come, a lot more. Of course I'll continue the way I did until now, as long as Abby & Vid Dude are ok with it. Perhaps the majority of boards are Darwinistic, but here we are at Abby's boards and as well as her site is different to the majority, her boards are different too.

                Ok, maybe I'm nice (Omygod, I have tears in my eyes when I think at Abby's comments on the news page last week) but I'm surely not too nice. Being very visible is unusual for a moderator? Hey I'm an unusual guy who helps moderating unusual boards, capice?

                A "nice moderator" is ultimately a contradiction in terms. It's like "aesthetic porn", a contradiction in terms, but Abby shows us every single day that it's real and that it works.

                I don't think Vid Dude and me are a good cop/bad cop team (well I'm the good cop anyway), it's rather a good cop/good cop system. Even good cops do throw people into jail as far as I know. Perhaps with a bit more style. That's what WE try to do here.

                Conclusion:

                You are not happy with the moderation of the boards?
                Fact is: These are Abby's boards, she's the boss, and she decides how to run the site.

                You think I'm posting too much and my posts bother you?
                Fact is: I don't think so. Simple solution for you: just don't read them (and avoid to look at my counter).

                You think I should stop welcome new members?
                Fact is: The over all reactions are positive, so I don't see what's bad here.

                You think I should be more in the background and moderate differently.
                Fact is: I'm the moderator, not you. I decide how I behave and what I do.

                I think all is said what I had to say, so the chapter is over for me and I'll not continue any discussion of this in public.

                Very last thing: I assure you, I don't want you to leave. Still friends?

                Lxm

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Luxman
                  ...at the beginning of my membership it was a thrill to get it up
                  Kind of asked to be quoted out of context.

                  Seriously though, this new member backs you for the dedicated work you perform. You welcomed me to the boards and I appreciated the simple gesture. It was a nice touch consistent with all the other nice things about this site... and one of the many things that makes me want to stay.

                  Cheers
                  Smitten

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Smittenbyakitten
                    Kind of asked to be quoted out of context.
                    Not bad that one, I like it.

                    Lxm - not living in Germany

                    Comment

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