"non-white" models

[Abby]

Hi

I'd like to make a catagory for "non-white" models. Most our models are white anglo saxons, and while that's good and well, and we'd love to have more variation, we're in a predominantly white country, and a predominantly white city.

There have been some good ideas we're chasing up on for finding more asian models, but this is about somehting different.

We get a fair few requests for non-white models, and we aldready have some, so I want to make a catagory for them so they are easy to find. So my question is, what should it be called?

We're not as racially sensitive here as our friends in the US - I am not even sure what the correct term is for black ppl is - so I am hoping someone can help me here. I realise that these pigeon holes can be begative, but I don;t think that's the case in this context.

So hit me.

Ethnic. Non-white....?

a

[Darth Dave]

I like the idea, I think you should be able to say black the same as you can say white, but I know how some people get about that so I would call the category Ethnic, Exotic, African or something along those lines.

Dave

[Abby]

yah - ATK call it "exotics", which is a good name, I think.

a

[artlover]

I think this category will be appreciated by folks like me who appreciate a variety of skin tones.

[A short digression on racial nomenclature. In the US, there is no universally used term to respectfully describe the descendants of persons brought from Africa as slaves. Up until the 60s, "negroes" was most used. Then as militancy increased in the 70s, "blacks" became popular. After "Roots" in the 80s, many started using "African-American" or "Afro-American". (This last one is tricky because some of our immigrants have dark skin and are African, but are not US citizens). Finally, some, looking for a term that included persons from other cultures with darker skins, use "persons of color". Complicating all of this is the fact that your skin can be as white as the whitest Aussie's and be considered by the government to be black because of your parentage. Both black and white people decide for themselves which term(s) to use. This is all part of a decades-long national conversation about race relations that we in the US will probably never finish.

From the Australian point of view, or anyone's point of view who has not been immersed in the cultures of the United States, this is probably baffling.]

If I have a vote in this category-naming, I would cast it for "exotic", since on this site, the darkest most models get is a nice tan like Joan's. I would use it without the "s", as an adjective. Some would argue, like me, that calling a person an "exotic" emphasizes only their difference at the expense of the other aspects of their lives that have nothing to do with skin color or nationality.

This is what happens when you allow graduate students to subscribe to AW.

[willow]

I have to say that I think "non-white" is a bad term. "exotic" is better, but I think it also has some patronizing connotations. "non-european" would be better. It may be a bit staid, but it is neutral and I think it covers what we're going for.

[crepescule]

I think it's an excellent idea, Abby. I truly appreciate your gestures of sensitivity in what to call this new category. Off the top of my head, how about "Other Than Caucasian"?

artlover came through like a racehorse. "Appreciate a variety of skin tones" (and I don't mean suntans ) comes a lot closer to what I was thinking than what I wrote. Black people aren't offended by the term "Black" unless it's used disparagingly, which would aply to any term.

Thing is, there are plenty of white Africans and plenty of black Europeans. This is what happens when people cross borders and stick around in their new digs. Except for truly native peoples like American Indians, Aborigines, and Maoris, we're all immigrants aren't we?

We should be popping the suds off a few as we run down these ideas.

[Darth Dave]

Is there a chance that this new category means that you have some new “exotic” models upcoming.

Dave

[artlover]

Except for truly native peoples like American Indians, Aborigines, and Maoris, we're all immigrants aren't we?

Well, the first group migrated from Asia to the Americas when the Bering Strait was a land bridge, so they too are immigrants.
And if you believe that all humans are descended from extraterrestrials, then all Earthlings are immigrants.

The Canadians have an interesting term for the Native Americans in their country: First Nations.

In the printing industry there is a color-matching system called Pan-Tone. Every color that can be mixed with inks is given a 4-digit code. Why not use that for the models? You can type in your preferred range, and voila! pink-with-a-tinge-of burnt sienna (Joan for example).

What's the emotican for a totally ridiculous suggestion that would drive the Abby team bonkers?

[casgrain]

How about something like "Miscellaneous origins" or "Miscellaneous Ethnies". Sorry I'm not sure about that spelling.

[ham]

Why make a catagory at all. No matter what you call it You run the risk of offending "someone" If one is "other than white" they will see the difference in the picture when they search. It could start a bunch of worms that would go on for years. IE what do we call this group, that group etc. I personally think it would be best to be blind to the whole issue. We join the site because we like the site and quality. That should be enough.

[calliope]

'Other hues in the rainbow',or something along those lines.?

[Darth Dave]

Why make a catagory at all. No matter what you call it You run the risk of offending "someone" If one is "other than white" they will see the difference in the picture when they search. It could start a bunch of worms that would go on for years. IE what do we call this group, that group etc. I personally think it would be best to be blind to the whole issue. We join the site because we like the site and quality. That should be enough.

Obviously a lot of people are looking for black/dark skinned models on the site and this would be an easy way to find them.
By your way of thinking maybe there shouldn’t be a big breast or small breast category, the plump and Asian categories should go as well in case someone gets offended.

We join this site because we like naked women and the categories just make it easier to search for who we are looking for.

Dave

[arsby]

I think a "non-white" category is perfectly descriptive and probably pretty inoffensive, given that it is totally descriptive. On the little two-line blurb it can say "we'd love to have more non-white models, but until then...".

The only other category name that sounds right is "exotic", but we don't want to mimic ATK, do we?

"Rainbow" has a political connotation in the USA, otherwise it would be good.

[alleyes1]

I'm with Ham, in not having a seperate category, but if we must, I would go with Arsby's "non-white". This is one of those, "no perfect answer" questions.

Speaking of which, did you ever notice that when ever Abby comes to us for suggestions it's always the tuffies????

Alleyes

[Abby]

Why make a catagory at all.

Cos we have a lot of content that some people find frustrating when they cannot find what they are looking for.

a

[Abby]

Is there a chance that this new category means that you have some new “exotic” models upcoming.

No, sorry. :/

a

[ham]

I totally agree with all the above comments. I feel the same way, but being born and raised in the U.S. and having been in mgmt I am very leary of any racial or ethnic distinctions. We, in this country have blown this way out of proportion. We have a lot to learn from the rest of the world, As do they from us.

[Philos]

We, in this country have blown this way out of proportion.

Not really. We who are old enough to remember WW2 know what "ethnic distinction" can lead to when it gets out of hand.

[timbit]

If you have to catagorize then "non-white" probably as good as it's gonna get.
Exotic sounds like you're describing a parrot and is a term that drives just about every "non-white" woman I've talked about it with nuts.
The problem with all these terms is that they imply a norm (white) and an abberation from it (everything else), although in the case of this site it may be accurate.
Of course then you have the problem of how non-white a model would have to be to slot into the catagory.
Just a warning, it's a can-o-worms!

Timbit

[brownboyletamb]

Agree with timbit re: "exotic." Being..uh.. Brown myself, I'd be more offended by that title than by "Asian" or "Black" or "Latino" (or in AW's case, "Latina" Then again, I know some Mexicans who hate being described by that term as well). No real good answer to this, I'm afraid. If you're asking because you'd like to make such models easier to find, the "ethnic" terms are probably better than the PC ones. How about asking the model what they'd like to be called?

BB

[Abby]

The problem with all these terms is that they imply a norm (white) and an abberation from it (everything else), although in the case of this site it may be accurate.

Yes, well, this is my point. Non-white models are exotic for US as a site. That's why I have been putting them in Deviations.

a

[Abby]

How about asking the model what they'd like to be called?

Ah, but there's the rub. This is not about what one model fels comfortable with, cos models are different. And anyway, chick from zimbabwe is going to give a different answer than one from China ("Zimbabwean" vs "Chinese", I guess).

I agree we should ask more ppl their opinion, tho.

a

[BigSpud]

What about "Racially Diverse"? Not glamorous, but honest.

"Colorful models"?

"verschiedene farbe" auf Deutsch

[BigSpud]

This is the name for a category correct?

Looking at other category names (eg Large Breasts, Tan Lines, Full Bush) they describe the contents of the shoots in the category not labels for the individual models. Why shouldn't this category name be handled in the same way? Just describe what the category contains.

Maybe "Racially Diverse" is not the best name, but it does describe the contents.

$.02

[Havemercy]

Since most members already know that the great majority of Aussies are Caucasian/Anglo, (or is that assuming too much?) perhaps we could call them "international" models, which avoids the Pandora's Box of white/non-white and the associated semantics. In other words, come up with a category name that implies all kinds of "difference from Australia's majority", rather than a categorization based strictly on skin tone. Of course, the backpackers and citizens of other nations who land at Abby's door could also be called international, so how about "Tourists" or "Visitors" for those folks?

To be honest, I'm not really wild about either of my own suggestions. "Non-Caucasian" seems perfectly descriptive and non-judgemental to me, but I realize others feel differently.

HM

[brownboyletamb]

Abby, had no idea you were placing all the "women of color" in Deviations. I was finding the Asian models by category.. If you were to ask me about "Deviations" as a name I'd think that was worse than "Exotic," but knowing what great stuff is in Dev it doesn't have the negative connotation I'd normally give the word.. I dunno, did that make sense?

Hey, how 'bout "Women of Color"? [ahem] Colour

BB

[brownboyletamb]

Oh, just saw Artlover already recommended this.. FWIW I have been referred to as a "person of color" before and had no feelings about the term, good or bad.. Though I've never been referred to as a "Colored Person" (as I hear the term is used in SA for everyone not white), nor have I seen a "White" vs "Colored" water fountain. Oh well, it was a thought.

BB

[masssive]

i don't like the idea of a "non-white", "non-caucasian", "non-blahblah"... because in this term there is the idea in there, that to be white is normal. it sounds a bit segregating and negative.
on the other hand, whites are far the most usual in australia.

"united people of color" has been the first anti-racism movement in the usa, formed by children of white farmers/patrons and black slaves. so "people of color" would be a nice name for the category, although a bit confusing...

you already have a category called asian, so the term "african" would be logical, but not correct (what about south americans).
why not use the term "black"? you have 3-4 lines in the category description to point out the "incorrectness" of this name (as incorrect i mean the fact, that there are a lot of different skin tones). i think this term is pretty neutral an comes closest to the idea of the category.

2 Rp.
mass
graduating student in the history of racism (no joke)

[freshdugi]

I think that there shouldn't a category based on skin shade (color,colour). there are too many shades and too much bad history.
there are just some categories we don't need.

[beanazoid]

Since most AW.com models are white and we already have an Asian category, I say black. Black doesn't have a negative connotation for US african-american or African people I meet. People understand that black means more than just appearance but family ancestry other than white, asian, or something else.