How the shoots work now...

[Abby]

Hi

Now seems like a good time to come out with some changes that have been happenning behind the scenes here. As evidenced by the "abbywinters 2" thread a while back, we have lots of models willing to do shoots, but not a place to put the shoots, which means we have a lot of backlog. I have come up with a plan to solve this, which I will post about in a sep thread shortly.

But the point is, I am burning out from shooting so damn much, so since about June last year, Jamie had been learning to shoot. She started shooting reduxes on her own in October or so, and moved on to shooting some of the primary shoots earlier this year. She shot around half of the special project models (and all of the reduxes of those models, which will appear over the next year I guess).

Then, she decided to quit, which was a big shame, but she HAD been with us for two years, and she is young, and the job was extremely demanding - 50 hours a week average. Around the same time, Susie came back to work for us, to help us make the T3's happen.

Soon after, I shot Penny, and found out how damn cool she is. We spent most of her shoot talking about photography and not shooting. I offerred her a job, initially as shooting assistant, but with a view of training her up to do shoots, and she was dead keen. As we started shooting more and more models, I realised that Penny cannot do it all herself, I was just exhausted, so I asked Nico if she wanted to work with us. She worked full time for ISM, wrangling models for that site, and was looking for a change, and has an extensive photographic background that she was not able to use at ISM, of course.

I trained her up over the next few months to do shoots, and now she does around one third of the primary stills shoots, and Penny does two thirds. Penny and I take turns to shoot the reduxes, and Penny's going to start shooting the Deviations models shortly. Penny is also shooting the T2 GG's, and has recently started solo'ing on the GGT3's, and she's doing a brilliant job on ALL her shoots. Verity has been directing the T2's and T3's (not that they need much directing, but when you're shooting them, it's hard to do it all).

Nico already has one shoot up on the site, and no one has noticed, indeed - forgive me for being paranoid - no one has noticed that Jamie has shot a lot of the recent stuff on the site, either. Penny has no shoots up on the site yet, but she will soon. And I doubt you'll notice the diff, cos I have trained them up well, and they GET what I want the shoots to be like, and anyway, the models themselves have not changed.

I review each and every stills shoot that Nico and Penny (and before them, Jamie) do, and they realise it's a learning expereince and I hope they learn a bit from each set we review and discuss lighting and composition and direction and so on.

Verity has been shooting allllll the solo videos, and alllll the IM's and alllll the GG vids for the last year, and she's close to burning out as well, for which I feel very guilty. She has trained Susie up to shoot, who's now doing a great job. That means she's freed up to work more on the IM videos (which are freaking amazing lately). We're going to then find at least one new person to help us shoot video, or possibly some part timers like Nico.

So there you go. I think you will notice some subtle changes in the shoots, I think they were suffering from my burnout to some extent, and the new blood as brought the spark back. As always, I value everyone's comments on the shoots, so long as you provide specifics and examples and don’t say "gee, it's all pretty crap lately!", I am going to be thankful for all feedback.

Here's to looking forward.

a

[artlover]

The main thing is, Abby, we don't want you or anyone getting burned out. Life is too short to spend all your time working, even when it's enjoyable, interesting work. The photography is at the same high standard I found when I joined in January (my gosh--that seems like ages ago--must be a side effect of Compulsive Posting Syndrome). I have no feedback as I generally offer it right away. Here's hoping the changes keep everyone working happily.

4 's cause you're all good folks and deserve life's best...

[BigSpud]

I noticed one thing about the Special Project that I thought was maybe just me and maybe just the nature of the shoots. There were very few close ups of the models "good parts" and faces.

I felt there was a style difference, but chalked it up to the fact that it was a "special project" and was approached differently. And now I see what one of the differences was.

Not a problem, but interesting for me to notice, but not have enough confidence in my powers of observation to say something.

[arsby]

Hey, Spud! A lot of the special project shoots were either in the water, on the beach or in the woods. A photographer needs a perch to take those closeups you're looking for, and my guess is they're harder to find in those venues. I think in general you'll have fewer closeups outdoors than in, except when they're on flat grass or poolside or like that.

[Abby]

I noticed one thing about the Special Project that I thought was maybe just me and maybe just the nature of the shoots. There were very few close ups of the models "good parts" and faces.

For the special project, there were less closeups, partly for Arsby's reasons.

But also, those closeups require strapping ont he closeup lens, and that's not viable in some situations. Also, the act of doing that is a little frustrating when there's lots of other stuff going on - you work to create a mood and rapport with the model, and that gets broken if you have to pause to mess about with the lenses.

The SP had more outdoor shoots than we'd normally shoot in a similar timeframe, and I think you'll find a lack of extreme closeups in all outdoor shoots we do (tho I have not gone thru each shoot to get stats on this).

Jamie was big on closeups, and it was her that started me on neck closeups.

a

[joannembd]

I don't know whether it reflects the fact that Jamie and not Abby did
a lot of what's gone up recently or the fact that Abby's felt "burnt
out" with shooting, or more different people involved with
designing/shooting/editing /filming/etc, but I had been wondering why a
lot of the recent stuff on the site seemed to have much less
"personality" - or seemed to be changing personality. I definitely
have felt the site has a different feel to it than it did when I first
subscribed over a year ago, and at least to my taste it's not been for
the better. I have definitely sensed the the fact that the entire
operation is much bigger, much more corporate, and it feels less like
someplace really unique and distinctive and more closer to the
pornsite mainstream. It's felt like it's become much more of a
"business" [which, of course, it is - I know - But still... ] Again,
I haven't been happy with the changes that I've felt somewhat vaguely,
and not been able to really identify or express clearly until getting
this confirmation of what I think are really major changes.

I would suggest that the "About Abby" page needs to change because
it's now inconsistent with the way the site is, not just the statement
that Abby shoots [almost] all of the stuff, but also the rather
emphatic stress on Abby as the photographer [e.g., the equipment "I"
use, the techniques "I" use, why "I" started the site, and so forth].
The page says that Penny does paperwork, tho now we find out she's
actually the photographer.

I also think that as the site has moved more towards a porn
mainstream, it's become less of interest to women. I have no idea how
many other women subscribe, but it has felt increasingly - not only in
shoots, but through the forums as well - that all the models who post,
most of the subscribers who post, and whoever plans shots and coaches
models etc, have all sort of given up on the idea that there might be
women interested in this and have totally become occupied with just
producing "porn for men's entertainment." That may be appropriate if
there aren't any/many other women subscribers, but that does make the
site less meaningful for me.

My real interest in the site right from the very beginning was the
fact that Abby was the photographer. The shoots reflected her
photographic [and, yes, artistic] vision as well as technique. I liked
that vision, and I liked the fact that it was another woman producing
it. The fact that Abby's not actually doing the photography anymore is
a major letdown for me and cuts my interest in the site by a lot. The
fact that this has been the case for some time and we didn't know it
adds to a feeling almost like betrayal.

[Abby]

I definitely
have felt the site has a different feel to it than it did when I first
subscribed over a year ago, and at least to my taste it's not been for
the better.

The thing is, as I said, not much of Nico nor Penny's shoots are on the site, and even Jamie's primary shoots are few and far between. The change is about to happen (for you; for us it has already happenned, as we have a lot of back catalogue in stock currently).

I think your reaction is to how _I_ have been shooting - as a result of burnout - than the way the new people are shooting.

I have definitely sensed the the fact that the entire
operation is much bigger, much more corporate, and it feels less like
someplace really unique and distinctive and more closer to the
pornsite mainstream.

That's true. nd that's going to happen to anything. The same way bands and authors and mags "sell out" to some extent when they become popular, we have as well. And it's a vicious circle. Sure, it does not sound like it's vicious, but there has been a LOT of pressure on me to shoot more. What we shoot is good, so shoot more of it, and it's going to be gooder, ya know?

I resisted it for a while, but then I found that there are all these opportunities that I am missing by just not having time to shoot them. And there are only so many hours in the day, so I have to delegate some tasks to other people (like image editing to Arsby).

And there's another problem. As we gain a larger profile, we have to be more responsible to a large extent. Other people look to what we do, see we're successful, and want a peice of the pie. We're successful, but we also try to do it right - things like ensure models are well paid (we pay more than pretty much every other site out there), ensure models are tested for STDs before GGT3 shoots (doing this makes the shoots unfortunately more cold and calculated; in the old days, we just to just happen to have two hort horny models around at the same time, so we asked if they'd like to get it on while we shot it. Now, it's a four week program that taks away a lot of spontinaity. But no one is going to say we should not test models for STD's, it's irresponsible not to (we have found models who were dead keen, but have Herpes, Hep C and so on).

I would suggest that the "About Abby" page needs to change because
it's now inconsistent with the way the site is,

Yes, it's going to change, but i wanted to have the discussion first. I shall add a link to this thread.

And not to maytr myself, but you must realise that by saying all this on the boards, I am risking loosing people for the same reason I'm loosing you as a customer. Perhaps you're more sensitive to these things than others, but plenty of people would have just put down the changes to a change of the way Abby shoots, the end.

I am trying to be honest here!

I also think that as the site has moved more towards a porn
mainstream, it's become less of interest to women. I have no idea how
many other women subscribe, but it has felt increasingly - not only in
shoots, but through the forums as well - that all the models who post,
most of the subscribers who post, and whoever plans shots and coaches
models etc, have all sort of given up on the idea that there might be
women interested in this and have totally become occupied with just
producing "porn for men's entertainment." That may be appropriate if
there aren't any/many other women subscribers, but that does make the
site less meaningful for me.

It has never been my intention to cater to women (or, in fact, women). My goal was to shoot stuff I like, but like chocolate cake, you CAN have too much, and that has happenned to me. The stuff we shoot now is not that exciting for me, cos I have been desensitised to it... but it is still very popular. Changing the style completely might have been the "honourable" thing to do, but if it means everyone bails on me I am going to be out of a job.

My real interest in the site right from the very beginning was the
fact that Abby was the photographer. The shoots reflected her
photographic [and, yes, artistic] vision as well as technique. I liked
that vision, and I liked the fact that it was another woman producing
it.

I realise you're expressing your feelings, and so they can be hard to justify with logic, but what you're saying does not make sense.

(1) I am overseeing the shoots very closely
(2) I review each and every shoot with Penny or Nico (nb, these are chicks!)
(3) I have to tread on their creativity sometimes, when they want to do things that I think are "wrong"

There are plenty of Spielberg fans out there who like the stuff he shot when he wrote, directed, produced, operated the camera, did the lights, editied the film and wroite the liner notes. But that's not to say that all his work since has been crap - it's just different, has a different feel.

I know what you're saying, and I agree with you. I hate it when I hear that my fave indie band has been signed to Sony Music on a five album contract, cos you just know that every one of those albums is going to be no where near as raw and exciting as the stuff they did on a shoestring budget... but that's the way things are.

There will be new young bucks on the block with new ideas, and we'll fade into being another Hustler style enterprise, too big and slow to change.

The fact that Abby's not actually doing the photography anymore is
a major letdown for me and cuts my interest in the site by a lot. The
fact that this has been the case for some time and we didn't know it
adds to a feeling almost like betrayal.

Sorry about that, but like I said above, less than 10% of the shoots on the first few pages of the model gallery were NOT shot by me (ie, 90% of it, I shot!), so you're saying you don;t like my stuff, so blame the burnout.

And thanks for posting.

a

[arsby]

Hah, great minds think alike. The message I deleted said almost the same thing as Abby said in her post.

I've known Abby for over 4 years, since the site was in it's infancy. I know she made personal sacrifices to get the site started, and she lives and dies for this site. In terms of taking artistic control, when Abby was training me in image editing she yelled and screamed till I got it right. She nailed me on every little detail. And she didn't leave me on my own until she was absolutely sure I would get it right each time.

One thing I didn't pick up from her response: the reason the site has been getting so big and Abby is no longer able to do it all herself is because of strident insistence by the members for more content. Asking her to do it all herself in itself risks lowering of standards, which Abby just won't do. No how, no way.

Also, I agree with Abby that your reasoning that the site is less for women because she no longer does it all herself is questionable... all the still and video shoots are still done by women. Can you point to a shift in content that makes it less for women?

Arsby

[susie]

Hey everyone

Let me be the first of the staffers to tell you how excited we all are by the recent changes going on here! It has been brewing for a while, and at last things are going to get a WHOLE LOT better.

And anyway, a change is as good as a holiday. And I like holidays

Sus

[mothra]

Changing the style completely might have been the "honourable" thing to do, but if it means everyone bails on me I am going to be out of a job.

HAve you wanted to change things radically?
If so, in what direction?

[Beatrice]

Let me second that! The thing I like the most is seeing young women being given a fair go especially in an industry dominated by men, Penny and Nico have a talent and deserve a chance, besides what does it matter who does what as long we are still bringing you great photography of hot natural young models.
Beatrice

[Abby]

hahaha, Susie is actually talking about something ELSE we're planning here, that I have not mentioned ont he boards yet. I need to speak to VidDude about it (he's on hols, back Monday), then I will post here.

a

[Abby]

HAve you wanted to change things radically?
If so, in what direction?

*sigh* I dunno. More IM-based, basically.

a

[artlover]

I am trying to be honest here!

And you are, and it's appreciated. Hearing some rather soul-searching ideas from the site founder/owner is hardly "corporate".

I was intrigued that the site was run by a woman, but signed up for the fresh-faced models, the photography, and the good humor of the "corporate communications".

[joannembd]

I appreciate Abby's replies. You make a lot of good points, including some things I hadn't thought exactly, or not thought exactly that way. Sigh... Maybe I just don't like change!

This struck me:

I resisted it for a while, but then I found that there are all these opportunities that I am missing by just not having time to shoot them.

I do think it's important and reasonable for you to want to grow yourself, and expand and evolve in new and interesting directiuons and explore new opportunities. Some of them for your own sake, some of them for the sake of the business. I don't want either your your business to become stagnant. If there are opportunities for new things, or things that you've always wanted to do, or things to explore, and in order to do them you have to shift priorities and bring others in to help with things, by all means go for it!

And this comment of Arsby's:

I've known Abby for over 4 years, since the site was in it's infancy. I know she made personal sacrifices to get the site started, and she lives and dies for this site. In terms of taking artistic control, when Abby was training me in image editing she yelled and screamed till I got it right. She nailed me on every little detail. And she didn't leave me on my own until she was absolutely sure I would get it right each time. ... the reason the site has been getting so big and Abby is no longer able to do it all herself is because of strident insistence by the members for more content. Asking her to do it all herself in itself risks lowering of standards, which Abby just won't do. No how, no way.

does help me understand and appreciate Abby's situation better.

Arbsy:

I agree with Abby that your reasoning that the site is less for women because she no longer does it all herself is questionable... all the still and video shoots are still done by women. Can you point to a shift in content that makes it less for women?

No I can't. And this isn't exactly a connection I meant to make. Those are two separate things. I was just trying to say more about how I felt the site evolving and changing: The vague feeling that it's becoming more conventional porn-like. I know the site isn't *supposed* to be specifically *for* women. I'd just like to know there are more women around here, subscribing. Of course, I guess I could post more often. Come on gals, are you all out there [subscribers]? If I post more, will you all post more?

Beatrice:

The thing I like the most is seeing young women being given a fair go especially in an industry dominated by men, Penny and Nico have a talent and deserve a chance,

Yes! That's definitely so. I agree with that. Aand:

besides what does it matter who does what as long we are still bringing you great photography of hot natural young models.

Sigh. Yes, you're right about that too, I have to admit.

I'm encouraged to some degree. And I appreciate the replies, explanations, background... I'm gonna go post on the other thread too.

[mothra]

Let me second that! The thing I like the most is seeing young women being given a fair go especially in an industry dominated by men

Here, here!
But then I can't do it
Damn Y chromosome.....

besides what does it matter who does what as long we are still bringing you great photography of hot natural young models.
Beatrice

Dang, you make that hot natural young model thing sound good
It sure sounds like a dream job but I can surely see how all the vast realities can make a FABULOUS thing seem like.....work. Eeeww
I have a pretty cool, creative job but I've been doing it for 15 years. I understand your pain, Abby.

Take a holiday if you can!

[Abby]

just did, six weeks!

a

[Philos]

Abby, go easy on the mea culpa. You say you are suffering from burnout, but don't forget that members burn out too. Things haven't changed much, but I don't find the site as amazing as I once did, simply because I've seen so much of it. Ironically, the increased content that everyone clamoured for must be speeding up this process. You can't win!

[Penelope]

Hi people,

Firstly, I'd like to say good work Abby for putting yourself out there. It's not an easy thing to confront the potential risks involved. Secondly, I can appreciate that all the current members enjoy the manifestation of Abby's vision as is. To that I must say that she spends an enormous amount of time training us to understand her objectives. We really do spend hours rehashing our motives for both the technical and creative aspects. I'll be the first to say that it has Nico and I quaking in our boots to think of what we have to live up to. This is also the reason why your feedback is so important to us. I've got this sinking feeling that you are all going to notice changes and come pointing the finger at me. Que sera sera. I've been having an awesome time shooting so I hope that will come across for you all.

p

[artlover]

I've got this sinking feeling that you are all going to notice changes and come pointing the finger at me

If so, just throw a ninja muffin at them...

[artlover]

Abby, go easy on the mea culpa.

Philos, you old softie...

[Darth Dave]

The thing that I would like to know about is redux shoots regardless of who shoots them (I admit I haven’t noticed a difference although this pic gave a hint) especially for popular models, before models like Elizabeth, Annabel, Susie, Petra had four or five but now with the amount of new models it seems like there are not as many done especially for the really popular models, Anthea has 2, has I know Marigold has one and I hope you do more with Paula, so I was wondering if 4 or 5 shoots of a model is now not a likely.

Dave

[Abby]

yah, we're still getting the same tird old models back for more. I shot Rosanna again yesterday, and Matilda again the week before. And we have stacks of Anthea saved up. And I have another shoot of the twins to go up. And Amy W. And Pip. And Patricia. You get the idea. Mary Jane. Yellena. Diana.

That's the thing, we need to spread them out. And we're still going to do them. And ironically, it may well be me picking the primo models to do reduxes of >

a

[Jorinel]

In the beginning there was Abby - and Vid Dude. They recruited girls to help with shoots - Danny, Susie, Cass, etc. but carried on doing all the work. They did updates (up to) three times a week (I don't go back further than the era of three times a week). They increased the updates and then the site became a full-time job - no days off. Ever.

So they needed back-up: this always means more work. You bring someone in to help and to start with you have to do all the work AND train the new person in how to do it - a problem if you're already working flat-out. So we get Arsby to do photoset editing and Jamie to do video (and photography as well it turns out) and then Verity to do video as well; and then some help for Vid Dude in the form of Millie for video editing; and then Penelope and Nico to help with photography and Beatrice for web updates. (And there are other aspects we see less of - and other people like Garion and Willow.)

There is some wastage along the way - in the sense that people move on, have other things they want to do with their lives.

So now Abby has had a holiday, and so has Vid Dude - and without major upset that is evident from the outside. This is good in that it frees the principals up to think of new things for our entertainment. I think it is great that they have managed to change from a small outfit to a medium-sized one without compromising what they do. And they still seem to care about what their customers think, and will respond to any well-thought out comment.

I know that I am sure that Abby won't compromise on the quality of the site which bears her name

Jorinel

It has never been my intention to cater to women (or, in fact, women).

Should that have been "(or, in fact, men)"?

[Abby]

Should that have been "(or, in fact, men)"?

ooopsie, yes, should have been.

a

[Dafydd]

G'morning, Abby. Forgive me for getting involved in the discussion so late—I'm something like 15 hours behind you. Anyway, A few things I'd like to address:

Burnout: frankly, I was afraid of this. I may be unique among your subscribers in this respect, but I've felt for some time that there seemed to be too much content going up each week. Things seemed much more relaxed when the schedule was simpler, but then you started adding content on Sundays, and then more recently you started putting up multiple additions nearly every day...I could understand if it were a temporary thing to relieve the backlog, but I don't see how a small company such as yours could maintain such a pace.

I may get rapped in the mouth for this, but would it really be so bad to cut back a bit on the new postings? You don't need to put up so much every week, especially not to satiate demands born of gluttony and the instant-gratification mindset—quality's more important than quantity and most of the shoots you put up have been worth the wait. Yeah, people will clamor for more, or they will clamor for specific models they saw in the "Coming Soon" section, but that'll be the case no matter how many new postings you put up each week.

Or maybe, you've gotten successful enough where you can start screening models more strictly? I hate to sound like Elfie or nursefana whining nag, but I know I'm not the only one who's become frustrated by the lack of pubic hair on display by the new models recently. "I know we've been through this before / I know you're weary of my asking", and I'm grateful to all the redux models of late—Armine, Emma R., Miranda, Gabrielle, Matilda, Her Milliness, all of 'em—who've maintained the standard, but still the fact that of the nine models on your front page none of them has more than a landing strip is simply depressing.

In any case, I'm not privy to all the details, and anyway it's your site to do with as you please. So long as you remain the artistic director, I'm sure things'll turn out ok.

D—

PS I knew Jamie was doing shoots—there's a great picture of her setting up a close-up in one of the Backstage sets—but you're right, I couldn't tell which ones. A credit to your stylistic integrity, I suppose.

[Abby]

I may get rapped in the mouth for this, but would it really be so bad to cut back a bit on the new postings? You don't need to put up so much every week, especially not to satiate demands born of gluttony and the instant-gratification mindset

We certainly could. But there are a few factors why I chose not to.

(1) the constant bitching, and I like ppl to be happy
(2) we have the models, the gear, the locations, the staff, the place to use the shoots... seems a shame to turn people away, yes?
(3) Models with pubic hair are always preferred, but we have some awesome models without pubic hair, you gotta agree. And anyway, plenty of people prefer models shaved, so it's another one of those half - half things you know? Please most of the people most of the time, without pissing of any big group.

Or maybe, you've gotten successful enough where you can start screening models more strictly?

hehehe, see this is funny. We are screen ing more agressively than we were before. As we get bigger, we need more models, so we advertise more, so we get more models applying (and word of mouth working more effectively). The rate of new models approaching us has been faster than the rate of growth of the company as a whole. Do you really wan tme to turn away the next Vivienne?

a

[brownboyletamb]

Yeah, the backstage shots of Jamie with the lens an inch from models' vulvae was a sign I think a few of us noticed, LOL.

I can't really explain how I feel about this change.. I welcome what others' talents can add to the site, as it's apparent you've got a great team there.. And yet there's something that is a little sad hearing that you feel burnt/sold out. Let me just say this: I only belong to one paysite, this one. It's simply because everyone involved seemed to be having fun. That's it. Do whatever it takes to not change that. If that means delegating shoots while you do something completely different, I'm all for it! F the members you lose (erm, "loose"?). And for God's sake, cut yourself some slack every now and then! Sit back. Have a muffin! Enjoy.

BB

ps As I told Vid Dude, about the only thing I think I'll miss from the "early days" of Abby-only-content are the, "Is that Abby's face in the reflection of the nipple piercing?" discussions..

[beanazoid]

Abby you and your staff are doing a great job. Good to read about positive changes behind the scenes. While you can't please all the people all the time, you're consistently giving us lots of content most members really enjoy! A very nice mix of redux favorites and new girls. Keep it up!

[alleyes1]

Abby, I think that is a very smart thing that you are doing. I know how it is to get burnout and for me (after 15 years), I had to take close to a year off just to recoup. (I came back stronger than ever!!)

Looking forward to great shoots and beautiful girls!!

Alleyes

P.S. Does this mean you might visit us on the boards more???