Plotlines in shoots?

[Abby]

NS brought up the issue of having models doing "things" during the shoots, small domestic things, like washing dishes, or making a bed. I'll ignore for the moment the obvious sexist undertones (whether impled deliberately or not).

I am undecided on the issue. Some other websites (notably, www.darchives.com), insist upon this for every shoot they put up, it MUST have a story. I reckon the stories are largely superflorous to the advancement of the shoot, tho it may, in some weird way, "justify" the model getting naked.

I dunno, it always just seems like a poor excuse to get naked (and lets face it, ppl don't get naked alone that often in the course of the day, maybe a shower, to go to bed, and that's about it) and there's only so many shoots to can do of models getting ready for a shower, right?

After that, one seems to be clutching at straws (how many wimmin get naked washing the dishes? hangiong out the washing? I mean, sure, they CAN, but...). This whole genre does not lend itself to narrative, that's NOT what it's about IMO. I am all for continuity (ie, start clothed, finish naked), but having and actual "story", however thin... seems totally un-necessary to me.

Of course, if my customers want that, over what I have been doing, I'll certainly consider it, but that's my current standing on the issue.

You?

Abby

[Vid Dude]

Here's my side of the issue:

I like telling stories, it's part of my creative urge img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif so the opportunity to play around with an idea for a shoot so that it is a little snapshot of "reality" holds great appeal for me.

Abby and I often wracked our brains trying to come up with a new way to shoot the next model, something we could easily set up, something that suited the girl's attitude and look, and something that was different to what we'd done before. We weren't always successful, but we did get some creative results sometimes, which is personally satisfying on a lot of levels.

When it comes down to it, though this storyline idea has merit in that the viewer can feel like they're observing a real person rather than a posed model, usually what happens is ten shots in nobody cares what the premise is anymore, they just want the girl to hurry up and get her knickers off.

I'd like to do more 'story' ideas in the future, but only sometimes, as a creative diversion, as well as a way to show off the model to their best advantage. I hope I don't speak out of turn here, Abby, when I say that she and I aren't doing this just because we're porn connossieurs, or just because we want to see naked chicks - we're also artists, in our own way, and want to put out good work that people will appreciate on many levels.

[nightstar]

Abby - I don't want to point this out, but if you classify those comment made by me as sexist, then it is not me who is the one who is sexist. I do my own washing - I make my own bed... I clean the toilet, and the cat (The dirty b*s*ard!) I do the garden, and the ironing... Sorry - Those "JOBS" are not "Womens Work" any more - They haven't been for some time. Please tell me where the sexist undertones are?

In this day and age, both men and women can do the same things - No matter what they are! There are only two things that women can do, then men cannot... Have a child (Although, I dare say this will change in the future!) and look good in suspenders.... Have you SEEN the Rocky Horror Picture Show - img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I could have suggested that the models do bricklaying, or engineering - How about some electronics work, if you want the other side of the coin?

Exactly what is so sexist about the washing up, or making the bed? Do you know what can be DONE with those bubbles! img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Sorry to rant on like this - But I don't like even the suggestion that I am sexist - I am not - Neven have been, and never will be.

(I now calm down and go away!)

[arsby]

I just want to point out something to Abby.
I go to the mall and there are naked women shopping, naked women eating lunch, naked women patrolling the mall. In the laundromat those cute naked chicks are folding the laundry. That sweet little pediatrician is so cute as she nakedly checks out my son. That lawyer with the small breasts and tight ass grabs for the law book on the top shelf.

In my mind they're naked! Don't you get it? They don't need an excuse to get naked. They just are!

The naked lady photographer kneeling as she... oops, won't go there. The pretty naked site manager at her desk late at night pouring over budget numbers... the idea gives me a stiffy for some reason.

My point -- Photo shoots having women do normal things -- on the phone in the office, folding the laundry, directing traffic. It's not sexism, it's not contrived -- it's fantasy!

Actually, I said all that on behalf of Nightstar, who is obviously deeply wounded by that sexism remark.

I, personally, wouldn't mind if you photographed all of your adorable models in a totally empty room.

[nightstar]

Thanks for the support... A little bit wounded, but I'll get over it.

How about... he, he, he... a room full of mirrors?????

[nightstar]

Is it me, or did I just go off-subject again? Mirrors / Plotpoint.... I'll have to think about those two!!!

Another off-subject remark (If I don't type it, my miniscule man brain may forget it!)... Twins!!! Just a thought. Or (And before we all freak out here - I mean a simple photoshoot with NO insertions or interaction between them) - Sister / Sister... Mother / Daughter. I'm not sure how that'd go down with people.

I'm just thinking about a simple stand-up photoshoot comparing generations - Or between two in the same family. Not these crap sites that have two models the same "doing" each other - Not my cup of tea! (Or for that matter, members of the same family doing it... Yuck!)

Call me sick if you wish (Most do!) but that would make for a unique and interesting photoshoot?!

Thoughts? (And please leave out the "Die Satan Worshipper"!!! I stopped that a long time ago!.. *cough*)

[Abby]

NS, I'll admit that I jumped the gun a little there, but you gotta admit that while you COULD have said "mechanic", "bricklaying", etc, you did not, you chose domestic things.

Anyway. No matter. Not offended, just a little surprised.

abby

[Abby]

Videoman;

yup, it's about the art to an extent, and I still don't think that having a plot is going to add to a shoot's creativity. But, I can be swayed! img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I agree that some kinda plot is necessary for a video vignette, however... and if we're going to video it, I may as well photograph it as well, i guess... hm, i dunno.

abby

[arsby]

Hey, Nightstar.

You remind me of hearing the comedian Gary Shandling talk about spending an evening in a motel that had a big mirror on the ceiling.
On the corner of the mirror were the words, "Objects in this mirror are larger than they appear."

[Vid Dude]

Abby,

Plot may not necessarily add to the creativity - but it can inspire it! Doing a kitchen scene is different to the usual shoot, but you've got to do more than change the setting - having her reading from a recipe book, mixing ingredients, then ending up covered in flour and whipped cream, that's an idea with lots of potential! img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[nightstar]

I need one of those "enlarging" mirrors!!!

I didn't say Bricklaying, or anything of the like, because they wouldn't look good in a photoshoot - I've seen photographers thinking that this was a good idea, and it's not. Besides - You would either have to go to location to do the shoot, or build a rather elaborate set... Neither, I would believe, you would want to do. Domestic activites are easy as far as set design, or just shoot in somebody's house!.. No?

Well - That's that cleared up. As way of compensation for my hurt feelings, I think I need a picture of Abby to cheer me up.

(I DOESN'T HURT TO ASK!) ...

[rumint]

Concur with Arsby's comments. But I'm satisfied with the way things are shot now. If you want a plot, just don't go overboard with it. It has to be semi-believable.

[arsby]

Rumint's right -- If you keep things the way they are, and don't go overboard on plot, I'll be happy.

Videoman, something you said struck a nerve -- please Don't go pouring flour (paint, syrup) over your models. That's the type of shoot I really dislike. Maybe it's that I don't like having that luscious skin. I like to see Everything.

I think I made it clear in the fetish discussion that I like nearly everything. Smearing food and/or paint over the models is one of the few "fetishes" I really dislike.

[arsby]

I meant "I don't like having that luscious skin covered up.

[nightstar]

What about see-through clothing, or wet clothing?

[Vid Dude]

When it comes to food, I actually like a little bit of drippy food, a few smears here and there. But not a total cover. Abby tried it once with one model being covered in M&Ms, which wasn't really what I meant when I suggested it to her. I was thinking more white creamy stuff like milk or ice cream or something.

And as for wet clothing - yes! We have tried a few wet looks before but they haven't been very successful as the hot lights dry them up almost instantly. But I have suggested an idea before that we shoot an entire sequence in the shower, but start off with the model clothed in white t-shirt, so it goes totally transparent for the beginning of the shoot. I think we're likely to try that one time soon. (Got to find just the right model for that to work its best)

[Abby]

ohhh, I think the M&M's worked well! VM's referring to the pics of Nikita, I'm pretty sure they are on the site...? *tired* heck, I dunno. I'm sure someone will let me know?

Wet clothing, not done much of, but I have done dome wet hair stuff, and I really like it. Anastacia and Erin both got their hair wet, and we did _great_ stuff with both of them becuase of it, IMO. The pics are in their galleries, so you can check them out.

Recently, I have shot some of Maria with wet hair, and they look good as well (not yet on the site, tho).

I am keen to try the wet t-shirt, or wet clothing thing, but as VM says, gotta find the right model.

-abby

[arsby]

I dunno.
I think a couple of smears of milk or cream unnecessarily detract from what I really want to see... nice smooth flesh. I don't get bored by completely naked women -- I really appreciate them.

I like wet hair, I love wet skin, I adore oil on skin.

But only if I can see the skin. I guess a couple of pictures of nipples behind a wet shirt would be sexy, but I'd rather see the nipples nude. If you want variety, have the model give her nude nipple a pinch.

Otherwise, I can find plenty of wet shirts in the non-nude and beach sites. They're not why I come to Abby's place.

[arsby]

And by the way, am I the only one who blows right past all of the clothed pictures in a shoot, and doesn't really look at the pictures until the first nipple shows?

I may be in the minority here, but I do that. I guess I don't like to be teased.

[sybiandude]

I have to say I'm just as much a fan of the non-nude pics as the nudie ones. As I'm sure I've said on this board in past, a girl doesn't necessarily only look sexy with her clothes off. Uma and Zoe are probably the best examples of this on the site so far. I like to see a gradual progression, from a (few) fully-clothed pix to the evenutal full nudity.

[Vid Dude]

Arsby, I gotta say, I think you probably are in the minority regarding seeing clothed/undressing models. Definitely Abby and I love the progression, so that's probably not going to change soon.

However we do have variety. Charlie, for example. I went looking for a clothed pic of Charlie once in prep for her bio page - and I couldn't find one! But then, she likes to wander around semi-naked in summertime, I think.

I do want to do a reverse scene sometimes - have some girl dressing from naked. That's what we did with Maria, in a sense. I also had this idea once of having a girl come in wearing work clothes, undress, and get changed into nightclubbing clothes. That's a good example of a 'plot' idea, actually.

I am veering from the point a bit. What I mean is, we try to cater for a wide variety of audience, but most of the time you'll probably see the models undressing from clothed. You'd be surprised at how many ways we can do that, though. I know I am.

[arsby]

Hey, I'm not complaining, just voicing a preference.
I think you folks are doing a great job with the site, and I'm just hoping that whatever you do to advertise works and makes the site wildly successful. (Being selfish there: successful site = more girls.)

Just don't tread on Nightstar's delicate sensitivities, Okay?

[nightstar]

You don't want to see a grown man cry now, do you? img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[captainklutz]

There are so many sites that post garbled & incomplete sequences. I find this very frustrating. At the begining of a shoot I want to see a few full length shots as if the model had just walked in off the street. No fancy, flouncy 'erotic' clothing. Any number of sites provide that. Straight everyday clothing adds to the appeal & credibility of the photosequence. Have the model strip naked, taking shots as each article of clothing is removed & after it is removed. I think strip sequences where items of clothing are left half on are OK providing they are not overdone. I think a model with her top pulled up under her armpits with her skirt round her ankles, pulling her panties to one side looks awkward & unnatural.

As regards themes. I think uniforms might be worth exploring. Nurses, Policewomen, Air Hostesses etc. Have them come in relax a while; strip for a shower or change of clothes? BTW I don't mean the 'play' uniforms I mean the real McCoy if you could source them.

I have other ideas for themes but I think that is enough rambling for now.

Thanks for your time & interest,

Regards,

Captain Klutz.

[Abby]

Cap'n

I hope you mean that there are NOT many sites doing what we do here, but from your post, that's not clear. I agree on you example of going overbaord to see a models rude bits, while still having her clothes on.

Uniforms, I agree, the "play" ones are no good, we need the real deal. Jade (an upcoming model) is a park ranger - that woulda been IDEAL! damn, never thought of that when we shot her!

Thanks for your ideas - and welcome to the 'boards!

Abby

[captainklutz]

Hi Abby,
Yes, that was what I was inferring...Sorry I wasn't explicit.
So far as I can see your sequences are commendably consecutive & complete :0) I always like the sequences to start with a few fully clothed full body shots prior to the stripping & ending with quite a few full frontal naked shots. Your efforts on this site are much appreciated in this corner at least ;0)

Gotta couple of ideas for sequences if you want 'em?

Regards,

Cap'n.

[kumaraguy]

Hi,
With regard to uniforms, how 'bout the traditional full dress aussie uniform
Sweatshirt, trackpants and thongs (not those thongs) .... img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[arsby]

How about girls in tank tops. A side view...

[Abby]

Ha! No way could I do THAT aussie uniform. She'd have to be holding a met pie, and a can of VB, as well, huh? And smoking a ciggie. :P

a

[kumaraguy]

hi,
Speaking of ciggies..
I hate smoking...
But for some strange reason I like to see pics of pretty young girls smoking..
Have you done any Abby ? img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif