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Video editing - the new system we use

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    Video editing - the new system we use

    The new video newsletter is now ready. But it's slightly different this time, as we have recently installed a whole new editing suite. We are using Avid, which is a high-end application, which we intend to use for HD, and better workflow.

    However, it has a steep learning curve, and I told myself my first lesson with it should be the new Newsletter this week. After much tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth, it is finally ready, but... I'm not sure I like the way these new tools operate. It just seems to be more limitations than should really be present.

    Oh well. You live and learn. I'm sure we'll get used to it, and the way things used to be will seem antiquated.

    Anyway. Hope you like. I'm off on a break from work for a couple of weeks, so Kai will be in control of the Newsletters for that time.

    #2
    Originally posted by Vid Dude View Post
    I'm not sure I like the way these new tools operate. It just seems to be more limitations than should really be present.
    There's usually a period of familiarisation to consider when switching applications.

    I still think you should have had a closer look at FCP, but that's only my opinion.

    Lxm

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      #3
      FCP wouldn't be able to do what we needed. Plus, swapping to Macs would mess with everyone's heads.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Vid Dude View Post
        ...swapping to Macs would mess with everyone's heads.
        I know, I know... (sigh)

        Originally posted by Vid Dude View Post
        FCP wouldn't be able to do what we needed.
        For example?

        Lxm

        Comment


          #5
          We needed realtime HD playback with multiple levels of effects or layers added. Plus we needed a centralised workflow, where access to files could be done remotely. Rather than taking up space on everybody's individual hard drive, they're kept on a central storage server and the Avid just refers to it, something which anyone can utilise from any workstation at any time, even simultaneously.

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            #6
            Hah, I knew it, don't say "FCP wouldn't be able to do" what you need, it's simply not true.

            [ATTACH]4392[/ATTACH]

            Lxm

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              #7
              Originally posted by Luxman View Post
              I still think you should have had a closer look at FCP, but that's only my opinion.
              We probably should have looked at FCP more. However, Avid was recommended to us by the fine folks at sapphicerotica.com, and they have a staff of 60-odd and do know what they are doing.

              Premiere is no where near suitable for what we're doing now, so it was def time to upgrade. FCP would be ideal for what we're doing now, and for the next year.

              But Avid is the big iron, and will suit us as we grow (assuming we continue to grow at the same rate we have for the last few years). FCP is becoming more and more a serious contended to Avid, but it's not there yet, IMO.

              I also disagree with Apple's policy of having to buy their hardware (so they can charge what they want for it) to run their apps. We're a PC based company, we know PC's well. I don't deny Apple's quality of hardware, but it is something that's totally alien to us, and swicthign to HD and a new editing program is enough of a change, without having to switch OS's as well! (Avid can work on PC or Mac, we have it on PC of course).

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Abby View Post
                We probably should have looked at FCP more. However, Avid was recommended to us by the fine folks at sapphicerotica.com, and they have a staff of 60-odd and do know what they are doing.

                Premiere is no where near suitable for what we're doing now, so it was def time to upgrade.
                Didn't know SE had that many staff, prolly 'cos I'm still thinking of the small start-up it once was Anyway, I was wondering what it is you're doing that requires such high-end editing software? To this entirely inexperienced viewer it looks like most you do is cutting scenes and put a logo on there???

                I do understand the troubles associated with moving to a higher-end program if you're used to a simpler one. The simpler programs are usually easier and more forgiving

                -Frans

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                  #9
                  The problem I've had with Avid, I think stems from the fact that it approaches its video editing from a film editing direction. Whereas Premiere and Final Cut approached their video editing from scratch, trying to emulate film editing but never forgetting it's a video editor at its heart.

                  I think the future of Premiere is Wedding and Corporate Videos and not serious level of productions.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Abby View Post
                    Premiere is no where near suitable for what we're doing now, so it was def time to upgrade.
                    Yeah, Premiere is on a dead-end road actually. I have used Premiere from 1995-1997 and I must say it had always huge stability problems even on Mac.

                    Originally posted by Abby View Post
                    But Avid is the big iron, and will suit us as we grow (assuming we continue to grow at the same rate we have for the last few years). FCP is becoming more and more a serious contended to Avid, but it's not there yet, IMO.
                    I see you have read Avid's commercial brochure in depth. I disagree, in my eyes with all the technology behind (I'm sure you don't really know) FCP is actually at a higher level than Avid and at least expandable the same way. But,...

                    Originally posted by Abby View Post
                    I also disagree with Apple's policy of having to buy their hardware (so they can charge what they want for it) to run their apps.
                    Yes, I would also like to be able to propose FCP to my PC based customers. The undeniable advantage of the proprietary platform is that everything, hardware, OS and software comes from the same hand and works really perfectly together. Eventually upcoming problems (bugs) are solved within hours or days of their appearance. You don't have to deal with hardware from HP, an OS from Microsoft, and an application from Avid. That's what makes the Apple solutions so rock stable and reliable.

                    Originally posted by Abby View Post
                    We're a PC based company, we know PC's well. I don't deny Apple's quality of hardware, but it is something that's totally alien to us, and swicthign to HD and a new editing program is enough of a change, without having to switch OS's as well! (Avid can work on PC or Mac, we have it on PC of course).
                    Well, most of my FCP customers are PC based companies, but for the entire post-production they use the solution they found to be better, Mac & FCP. The OS is not really an issue because the users are always in their applications and don't really have to deal with the OS. Anyway, open or save a file and using the folders is the same on Mac OS and Windows.

                    To give you an idea of the extensibility of "my" solution: My biggest FCP customer uses 22 editor workstations, all connected to two centralised storage system of 42 TB each, one in production and one for backup. Only Apple hard & software (except the fibre channel switches that are from Emulex). We never had a problem with this installation.

                    I'm happy that most of my customers are a bit opener in looking at "Alien platforms" than you are.

                    Lxm

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Luxman View Post
                      I see you have read Avid's commercial brochure in depth. I disagree, in my eyes with all the technology behind (I'm sure you don't really know) FCP is actually at a higher level than Avid and at least expandable the same way. But,...
                      Seems the two are pretty close really, http://www.lafcpug.org/feature_fcp_vs_avid06.html. I do wonder how many sales Apple misses due to FCP being Mac only?

                      Originally posted by Luxman View Post
                      To give you an idea of the extensibility of "my" solution: My biggest FCP customer uses 22 editor workstations, all connected to two centralised storage system of 42 TB each, one in production and one for backup.
                      I'm sure Abby would be VERY happy if she were to need that amount of workstations and storage (due to site growth) Hmm.. this is drifting into Tech Art territory Was kinda wondering if that storage is pure Apple or simply rebranded, not that many firms making big storage these days (well, the affordable kind anyway )

                      -Frans

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by fransAW View Post
                        Was kinda wondering if that storage is pure Apple or simply rebranded, not that many firms making big storage these days (well, the affordable kind anyway )
                        The servers, the storage and the management software are Apple developments.

                        Lxm

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Luxman View Post
                          The servers, the storage and the management software are Apple developments.
                          Ah yes I remember, different tech from what I'm used to though (EMC, fiber). Do the current editing suites use files directly from remote disks or copy it to local storage first?

                          Another thought occured to me regarding the use of editing equipment at all. The Video Newsletter itself needs the most editing from different sources doesn't it? All other video clips are based on two inputs at most. What Avid system did you get anyway? I only once helped setup a newsroom-system (which I think is pretty much top of the line for Avid?), so I have this image of a very capable but also difficult to grasp program you have to work with now, compared to 'easy' Premiere

                          Adjusting is always difficult, regardless if you were to use FCP or Avid. In a couple of months you should experience the true benefits though.

                          -Frans

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Vid Dude View Post
                            The problem I've had with Avid, I think stems from the fact that it approaches its video editing from a film editing direction. Whereas Premiere and Final Cut approached their video editing from scratch, trying to emulate film editing but never forgetting it's a video editor at its heart.

                            I think the future of Premiere is Wedding and Corporate Videos and not serious level of productions.
                            That is because Avid has is birth in the film industry and Premiere in the Video industry.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by waltercp3 View Post
                              That is because Avid has is birth in the film industry and Premiere in the Video industry.
                              Yes. I know. That's what I was saying.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Vid Dude View Post
                                Yes. I know. That's what I was saying.
                                Hey Chill VD, I am the one who likes New Zealand

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  With Apple supplying windows support for its Intel based machines, probably FCP will be out for PC world within a year.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    First: Apple does not support Windows! The hardware allows to install & run Windows. There's nothing more.
                                    Second: I'm sure that all the Apple applications will NEVER be ported to Windows.

                                    Lxm

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Who expected Apple to officialy offer possibility to run Windows on their machine???? Not only did they allow some third party to do the job, They even painstakingly developed a program in house to allow it to happen... well welll welll. Time will telll what's next

                                      I've been an avid Apple user since 1986. My studio currently uses FCP in seven apple machines.

                                      Apple shares could never dream of raising above 40 $ in present scenario had they not offered IPODS with Window's compatibility.....

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Damn. Wish I had done more research now. :/

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Abby View Post
                                          Damn. Wish I had done more research now. :/
                                          Why? Avid does seem to be a bit more expensive but does what you want, on the platform you want, right? No use in looking back now, got videos to produce.. stuff to edit..

                                          -Frans

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Abby View Post
                                            Damn. Wish I had done more research now. :/
                                            I love your sarcasm.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by malleswaram View Post
                                              With Apple supplying windows support for its Intel based machines, probably FCP will be out for PC world within a year.
                                              hahaha, that will never happen. Final Cut is Apple's crown jewels along with the iLife suite. Apple would be downright bonkers to release it for the unwashed, sorry, I mean, Windows users.

                                              I'm surprised that all this multimedia work isn't being done on Macs (Aperture is very cool and Final Cut Studio is a bargain for the power it provides, as well as the hardware and OS itself being a class above), but whatever the people doing the work are comfortable with is fine, as it doesn't seem to be impacting upon quality

                                              It'd be interesting to see if AW takes a leap into things like podcasting or videocasting, as Apple loves that sort of stuff and has extensive (and good) documentation on how to make them effective and even includes software in their upcoming server OS to create and spread podcasts with a few clicks - http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/l...tproducer.html

                                              Apple's key market is video and they've got excellent support and a lot of experienced users who use Apple tools to create great work, check out http://www.apple.com/pro to get a sense of what real people in the real world are doing with their Macs and software like Final Cut Studio and Aperture.
                                              Last edited by decryption; 4 December 2006, 08:51 PM.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by yusanord View Post
                                                I love your sarcasm.
                                                Just to be precise: Abby told me that this wasn't sarcasm, it was her real thoughts.

                                                Lxm

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Luxman View Post
                                                  Just to be precise: Abby told me that this wasn't sarcasm, it was her real thoughts.

                                                  Lxm
                                                  Well that shows that Apple's marketing for FCP needs work then Still both systems will pretty much both do the work required. They might work slightly different but I don't expect much difference in final working situations.

                                                  What I do wonder about is pricing, I was told years back that Avid was sorta pricey (judging by the hardware they ran it on back then that was to be expected;-), but since FCP is coming closer and closer I suspect they've reduced their price somewhat to match ;-) (and diversivied their products to make choosing impossible )

                                                  Looking at similar products after you've purchased something is usually a bad idea. When I buy a new dvd-player and I read the commercials next day I'm bound to see a cheaper one. At some point you make a choice and go with it, looking back doesn't add much.. well except sorrow/headache

                                                  I've not really noticed much difference yet, except for the widescreen that is ;-).

                                                  -Frans

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Think AW will find that the biggest up for the new system should they employ it is that you can work on different Videos at the same time. And once you get used to it Avid software is quite sufficient.

                                                    I have switched to Avid express from Premiere and am pushing my bitrate to the max and my videos look a lot better. I still have a long way to go with Avid. I have only used .01% of the program on a duel core AMD processor.

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Luxman View Post
                                                      Just to be precise: Abby told me that this wasn't sarcasm, it was her real thoughts.

                                                      Lxm
                                                      My comment was not meant to be offensive in any way, I really thought it was sarcasm, I apologize my ignorance.

                                                      yusa

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        You should have gotten the software and learned that first, then added the hardware. Avid HD is hard to learn, but, easy once you have learned it. And more stable.

                                                        Comment

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