Forum links to other sites

[brvictoria]

A number of AW models seem to have their own sites, Rosanna being the latest (see her thread), and other models have posed for sites other than AW, so I was wondering what the AW policy is on models posting links to these sites? Not every model will want to post links to other sites they have shot for and perhaps not know the URL’s even if they did, but for those that can and do, is this allowed?

I wouldn’t want the boards to become an advertising hoarding for other sites and clearly Abbey’s site = Abbey’s rules, but I for one would like to see how other sites have chosen to shoot some of my favourite models.

[arsby]

A number of AW models seem to have their own sites, Rosanna being the latest (see her thread), and other models have posed for sites other than AW, so I was wondering what the AW policy is on models posting links to these sites? Not every model will want to post links to other sites they have shot for and perhaps not know the URL’s even if they did, but for those that can and do, is this allowed?

I wouldn’t want the boards to become an advertising hoarding for other sites and clearly Abbey’s site = Abbey’s rules, but I for one would like to see how other sites have chosen to shoot some of my favourite models.

Hi, BrV.

I think you said it yourself in the last paragraph; we play by Abby's rules here, and she seems to frown on links to individual model's sites. Since the models are primarily one-time amateurs, I'd doubt that there are even a half dozen who have had their own sites. Plenty of models have sets/videos up at other Aussie sites like IShotMySelf.com and BeautifulAgony.com, but it's already been discussed that you're on your own in terms of "cross-referencing" their model names in those sites and here.

If you are itching for recommendations of interesting sites, try the links page.

[rachel_t]

i have my own site, but i've always been under the notion that i'm not allowed to give out the address (granted, a few members from here have managed to find it quite easily apparently). i suppose it's because they don't want members to be able to contact us one-on-one because of privacy reasons (which personally doesn't bother me at all, because really, what can someone do with a website address, a fake name, and a throw away email account? also, unlike many girls out there, i'm internet savvy enough to know that when someone sends you mean/sexual/harassing emails, you don't need to get upset over it cos that's what the delete/block button is for), and because it could potentially take customers away from here. at least, that's what i assume? correct me if i'm wrong.

i've never asked if i can give the name of my site on here, but i always just assumed it wasn't allowed. maybe once my new one is up and running i'll ask if it's alright to drop some subtle hints or something haha.

until then, if you wanna see any of the models outside of here, it's gonna take some serious detective work

[valerie]

Hey Rachel, that's for respecting the until-now-unwritten rule of not posting links to other sites without specifically asking first. Why is this the rule? I think some of the reasons have been pointed to on this thread, but mostly it's for privacy reasons.

We've got the lawyers breathing down our necks about privacy, and as we're not a tiny site we are under more scrutiny. So in short, if something did happen, we would be responsible. Far-fetched? Maybe. But in terms of risk-management, this is simple to implement (just don't allow links) and apparently all but completely effective.

If there's other *main* reasons, I'm sure Abby, Vid Dude or Luxy will announce them as well, but this seems the most pertinant to me. Does this make sense to everyone?

(Keep in mind that anyone can read the boards, not just all you gentlefolk who post, or even not just members!)

[rachel_t]

We've got the lawyers breathing down our necks about privacy, and as we're not a tiny site we are under more scrutiny. So in short, if something did happen, we would be responsible. Far-fetched? Maybe. But in terms of risk-management, this is simple to implement (just don't allow links) and apparently all but completely effective.

i understand what you mean entirely. like i said in my post, a lot of people don't know how to handle the internet safely. you only need to read some past & present threads in the mundane chatter section to see how badly some people can over-react to the tiniest things, and i'm sure the last thing the AW staff want is one of their models threatening to sue them because she gave out her website/email address on the forums and a member/public viewer of this site started sending her a mass of sexually explicit emails. even though that's an unlikely scenario, it's a possible scenario, so it has to be considered.

[dfens75]

Far-fetched? Maybe. But in terms of risk-management, this is simple to implement (just don't allow links) and apparently all but completely effective

It does make sense, but yet some links are allowed to other sites - so what makes these different? E.g. Donavan Freberg's porn blog which is a link to an individual's website. Could there not be a way to allow links to model sites in a similar way that address privacy issues?

I would also think that part of the unspoken reason for not allowing links to other model websites is competition and taking away customers from abbywinters.com - which again is reasonable, since abbywinters.com is a business. It seems that the links already allowed (e.g. Donavan Freberg) all advertise abbywinters.com in some fashion - if this makes them an affiliate i've no idea - but again it is already possible and could be done. I would hope the models being linked to would have no problem doing this (rachel_t could you comment?)

Of course if Abby / abbywinters.com says no then that's the end of it, but it would seem that there is a desire among members to allow links to models websites (e.g. i'm thinking of those that have bridged the gap from amateur model to something more - the rachel_t and rosanna's) and that it could be done in a way that manages the risk (to both abbywinters.com and the models).

[brvictoria]

That's what I like about this site - you ask a question, you get an answer.

you only need to read some past & present threads in the mundane chatter section to see how badly some people can over-react to the tiniest things

That's true!

------------------------------------

There is, or was, a site (whose address I've forgotten) that listed UK porn models who had made videos and cross referenced them against the name of the videos and the names the models had performed under. It has always surprised me that no one has produced more of these sites: if I could afford the cost of the research and risk of being off porn for live(!) I think there would be a fortune to be made from such a site. Maybe when I retire or win the lottery ...

[Abby]

It does make sense, but yet some links are allowed to other sites - so what makes these different? E.g. Donavan Freberg's porn blog which is a link to an individual's website.

Places we link to on our links page (and elsewhere), we have a business relationship with. We don't have that with models (we could make it like that with our contracts, but we choose to make the contract we have with models be as open as possible - we don't make our models exclusive to us, for example).

Could there not be a way to allow links to model sites in a similar way that address privacy issues?

Oh, sure, there are lots of ways. The question is, do we want to do it? The answer is, we don't have time. There are a sillion things that need to be done, all of them many times more important than this. By the end of Sunday, I will have done 76 hours this week. Penny and Susie will be around the same. Jo will be similar (I don't say this to brag - cos it's nothing to be proud of - but to indicate that we're running really fast here to keep the site where it is, and try to grow in specific areas (more T3's, for example)).

I would also think that part of the unspoken reason for not allowing links to other model websites is competition and taking away customers from abbywinters.com - which again is reasonable, since abbywinters.com is a business.

I guess so, tho I had not really thought about that. I don;t think any of our models sites are money making ventures, tho, so I don't think we have much to worry about there. And anyway, we link to plenty of sites that are our direct competition. I think that's a healthy thing.

It seems that the links already allowed (e.g. Donavan Freberg) all advertise abbywinters.com in some fashion - if this makes them an affiliate i've no idea - but again it is already possible and could be done.

Donovan Freeberg is an affiliate. All our affiliates have signed contracts with us, and are managed by a full time person who's job it is to do this (Rainbow).

Of course if Abby / abbywinters.com says no then that's the end of it

No.

Betcha this will not be the end of it.

it would seem that there is a desire among members to allow links to models websites

We have more requests for pics of models poo'ing than we do for links to their websites. Are you really saying this should be a voting thing?! 'course not. We do have plans to increase the involvement of models with AW, but linking to their personal sites is not on the horizon ATM. It may be, one day, but not in the next year or so.

[rachel_t]

I guess so, tho I had not really thought about that. I don;t think any of our models sites are money making ventures, tho, so I don't think we have much to worry about there.

by the sounds of it, rosanna's site is a membership/paysite thing, as is the new site i'm currently working on for myself (although to be honest, mine will be absolutely no competition for AW whatsoever as mine is going to be a heavily made-up glamour site and targeting a totally different niche!)

I would hope the models being linked to would have no problem doing this (rachel_t could you comment?)

i would not ask AW to link to my site even if they allowed it, because i would not be prepared to link to them. as i've stated many times, my work for AW is not something i like to advertise and i really don't want anyone i know seeing those images, so i keep it very secret. because of that i would not link to AW as an affiliate, therefore i would not expect them to link to mine. and like i mentioned above, my site will be aimed at a very different market to AW so the two sites would not really have any connection at all.

[matchless]

Rachel posted her comments while I was typing mine. So I'm wondering, Abby, if another model with her own site asked about becoming an affiliate, how would you respond?

[dfens75]

No.

Betcha this will not be the end of it.

Thanks for the thorough reply (which i've summarised above ). I would urge anyone else to read that reply first and put themselves in the shoes of abbywinters.com before posting a "yea but...." response!

Answers like that are a top reason why I love this site - shows a level of dedication and professionalism that goes beyond "making a buck" into something that borders an obsession and which would certainly be described as passion <--- even if that means little or no work/life balance!

[brvictoria]

I would urge anyone else to read that reply first and put themselves in the shoes of abbywinters.com before posting a "yea but...." response!!

I'm inclined to agree - I asked a question, I had an answer, end of story. If Abbey makes a decision of this or any other issue that causes her company to go out of business it's not the members that suffer since as she pointed out AW is not short of competitors who we can transfer our allegiance to. Thus as I said first time round, Abbey's site = Abbey's rules!

I am more interested now in why anyone could possibly want to see a model pooing? I can think of a number of things I wish AW would feature (multiple GG tier 3's for example or repeat tier 3 (or 2) pairings), but that, no thanks!

[arsby]

I am more interested now in why anyone could possibly want to see a model pooing? I can think of a number of things I wish AW would feature (multiple GG tier 3's for example or repeat tier 3 (or 2) pairings), but that, no thanks!

I'm thinking that Abby meant she's gotten like 7 requests for poo and 5 requests for the links to model sites.
You'll be pleased to know that whenever a request for poo does come in, the reply is a nice resounding NO.

The porn shorthand for poo is "scat". Look it up, you'll see dozens of sites. Go figure.

Ref: multi-model T3's. I'm one of the stills editors here, and I have enough trouble with the girls getting in each other's way with 2-model T3's. I'm thinking that the only way to accomplish a multi-model T3 would have the models do a series of 2-model T3's one after another. I'm afraid that with a real multi-model T3 the girls would be blocking out each other's pink bits so much you wouldn't be able to see anything!

[Abby]

Rachel posted her comments while I was typing mine. So I'm wondering, Abby, if another model with her own site asked about becoming an affiliate, how would you respond?

...by crossing that bridge when we get to it. But if they wanted to enter into our affiliate contract arrangement, it's certainly seems viable on the face of it.

[brvictoria]

I'm thinking that Abby meant she's gotten like 7 requests for poo and 5 requests for the links to model sites.
You'll be pleased to know that whenever a request for poo does come in, the reply is a nice resounding NO.

The porn shorthand for poo is "scat". Look it up, you'll see dozens of sites. Go figure.

Thanks, I know what the term is but I think I'll pass on the experince and if I do ever change my mind I need only walk down my local highstreet after pub/ club chucking out time on a Staurday night.

Ref: multi-model T3's. I'm one of the stills editors here, and I have enough trouble with the girls getting in each other's way with 2-model T3's. I'm thinking that the only way to accomplish a multi-model T3 would have the models do a series of 2-model T3's one after another. I'm afraid that with a real multi-model T3 the girls would be blocking out each other's pink bits so much you wouldn't be able to see anything!

That's a directing issue not an editing one: Sapphic Erotica manage fine (and the lighting is better). With AW Tier 3 it always seems to me the videographers make the best of the angles they are presented with to show the pink bits. Sometimes the results are great – witness Paul and Chole and more recently Marigold and Laurin – more often they are a little disappointing but the videos are still very sexy. With Sapphic Erotica the actions seems much more choreographed to ensure the viewer sees everything, often in close up. Conversely, especially recently, they are rarely sexy. If fact often it’s like watching a video manual of how to have lesbian sex, a sort of sex by numbers. It probably doesn’t help that SE models are professional (i.e. they do a lot of shoots) where as AW models are generally amateur and may shoot only once or twice.

So if AW starts shooting multigirl tier 3’s, the action will have to be choreographed if, as you say, we are to see anything. And if that happens, then yes there’s a risk of the resulting video loosing its sexy element. Still think its worth a try though.

[Vaxalon]

So if AW starts shooting multigirl tier 3’s, the action will have to be choreographed if, as you say, we are to see anything. And if that happens, then yes there’s a risk of the resulting video loosing its sexy element. Still think its worth a try though.

I think a threesome or moresome, with no "choreography" and with the videographer finding what can be found would be just fine. One of the great things about AW is the authenticity. There are plenty of other sites that offer vivisected, engineered sex. That's not what I'm here for.

[Abby]

So if AW starts shooting multigirl tier 3’s, the action will have to be choreographed if, as you say, we are to see anything. And if that happens, then yes there’s a risk of the resulting video loosing its sexy element. Still think its worth a try though.

We shot one recently, actually. I found it pretty disappointing, but I expect it will be popular here cos there are so many people who want it, and the models themselves are excellent. But the interaction between them does not really _work_ IMO. However, I have only seen the RAW version, yet to see the editoed, so I could be totally wrong!

However, I would like to keep this thread on topic (linking to other sites), please. If there's more to discuss on multi-model T3's, please start a new thread.

[ainslee]

i'm also curious about this question about linking, as i'm currently shooting for my own website and want to advertise it in a tasteul manner. I understand why Abby cannot post the link directly on the site but I know for sureI'd be interested in checking out a model's other site. Is it possible to make a thread on it or ask the model directly about it or some other indirect way to find out the url??
cheers
ainslee

[arsby]

...or some other indirect way to find out the url??

How about cryptography. Here's the name of my (fictional) website:
www.arsbysarse.com

Can you figure it out?

[Luxman]

www.arsbysarse.com

Lxm

[arsby]

www.arsbysarse.com

Now tell everyone how you did it, you brilliant man, you.

[ainslee]

oh i got excited, thats not really a site!!! trickery!

[BigSpud]

i'm also curious about this question about linking, as i'm currently shooting for my own website and want to advertise it in a tasteul manner. I understand why Abby cannot post the link directly on the site but I know for sureI'd be interested in checking out a model's other site. Is it possible to make a thread on it or ask the model directly about it or some other indirect way to find out the url??
cheers
ainslee

you could disguise the link so no one would immediately notice that it was a link.

w w w dot a r s b y a r s e dot c o m

[brvictoria]

i'm also curious about this question about linking, as i'm currently shooting for my own website and want to advertise it in a tasteul manner. I understand why Abby cannot post the link directly on the site but I know for sureI'd be interested in checking out a model's other site. Is it possible to make a thread on it or ask the model directly about it or some other indirect way to find out the url??

I was thinking about this and it occurred to me there were two possible ways of providing links. As far as I know (and a moderator will tell me if I'm wrong) there's nothing stopping members posting their email addresses on the boards, indeed Mrs Roops did it recently I think. In that case any model with their own site could choose, or not, to email a link to their site to a member and I don't see how Abby Winters could be held responsible for that. Otherwise, Abby does link to a number of sites that review other sites and you could, I assume, always ask one or more of those sites to review yours and then post to your thread a message saying your own site had been reviewed by, say Janes Guide. I don't know if either of these still leaves Abby Winters exposed to legal challenges?

Other than that, I quite like Big Spud's solution!

[BigSpud]

I would recommend waiting for Abby to come up with a straightforward way to do this that meets her requirements.

I fear that if we try to get around this in some way we will end up losing more than we gain. (Think PMs)

[Luxman]

Yeah Spuddy, I think you have the right view of the things here.

Lxm

[ainslee]

(what was PMs?? and why are we whispering?)

[BigSpud]

(what was PMs?? and why are we whispering?)

See this thread for more info.

[ainslee]

notto push this subject or anything, but can a model put the url as her homepage? on her profile?

[valerie]

Ainslee, we generally ask that you clear that with us beforehand first. The general rule is 'no', for reasons listed above. Being sneaky about how you present the info doesn't change that you're still presenting it. Please email us if you'd like to discuss this further.