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    East European Content

    There is a potential content section at AW that I have long wished for, but not asked for, because it seemed that it would not mesh with your other work.

    But times and sites change. As AW becomes more expansive, it seems like this might fit. I finally decided to suggest this, because it is looking to me like a business opportunity waiting to be snapped up.

    There is a ready supply of good photographers and models in East Europe. They work in a wide range of styles and genres, and have graced many good porn sites. Styles include mainstream, classy, and artsy. Some of the best known and most successful porn sites rely heavily on their contributions.

    They work inexpensively because of economic conditions in their part of the world. Domai typically pays $400 per photo set, according to information posted on the site.

    What I’ve never found, however, is East European content in the style of AW. I’ve been searching for it on and off over several years, without luck. The photographers produce in the style of the buyer’s sites, and the buyers have not been AW.

    They certainly could produce in AW style. Or at least, the best of them could. They would only have to study AW content for a while to see what you like, and then work with it a bit.

    Potentially, there is a large amount of content in AW style that can be produced quickly and inexpensively, by taping East European sources.

    So there’s an opportunity. For twice what AW sends to charity, you could be adding five additional photo sets per week. At the rates Domai is paying, $2000 would buy five photo sets.

    The artists could send photo collections, or just send raw photos and let your editor staff pick and frame the best ones. The latter would probably work best.

    A lot of familiar things would be missing from East European photography. There wouldn’t be hand-written bios and model’s threads. The models wouldn’t be Australian. None of them would end up on your staff. The electrical sockets in photo backgrounds would look strange.

    But that still leaves a lot of good content that could go into a section next to Solo, IM, and GG.

    Whatchathink?

    #2
    Interesting idea, Minotaur. There are certainly a lot of beautiful girls in that part of the world. I wonder if they would tend to keep their bodies more hairy and natural due to the cultural conditions, thus making a lot of our members very happy.

    The beautiful Viera, whose video goes up today is a Czech traveller, just in case anyone needs an example of an Eastern European.

    Of course I wouldn't want the Eastern European content to replace anything that's here now, but as an associated site after the site split, I think it could be a great addition.

    One other familiar thing that might be a problem - the videos. Would you suggest that we have those made too, despite the language barrier? I suppose a certain percentage would speak adequate English, or with some high quality music in the background it might work. I would hate to skip having videos for these models, regardless of the difficulties.

    Thanks for the suggestion. I will also be interested in Abby's opinion.

    Comment


      #3
      Speaking pf Eastern Europe: Centaur, you introduced Viera on the news page as coming from Czechoslovakia. That country doesn't exist any more since 1993. It was split up in Czech Republic and Slovakia. I know, that both new countries are very proud of their own autonomy.

      doinel
      Last edited by doinel; 8 June 2007, 07:48 AM. Reason: spelling

      Comment


        #4
        good idea

        i fully agree. good idea

        kronful

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by doinel View Post
          ... you introduced Viera on the news page as coming from Czechoslovakia. That country doesn't exist any more since 1993. It was split up in Czech Republic and Slovakia. I know, that both new countries are very proud of their own autonomy.
          My apologies to the people of both countries. I'm afraid I don't know which of the two Viera comes from.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by minotaur View Post
            There is a ready supply of good photographers and models in East Europe. They work in a wide range of styles and genres, and have graced many good porn sites.
            I'm surprised that no-one else has yet spotted that this issue has been covered before:

            This is a place where staff and members can post outlandish ideas on ways the site can go. Includes things like advertising and business related, plus ideas for shoot genres, site sections, special projects, and stuff like that


            Personally I feel that it doesn't fit into the remit of this site, but there you go. If I want to subscribe to Simonscans I know how to find it.

            Comment


              #7
              Some things that probably won't change about AW.com:
              - All shoots are done in Australia
              - All shoots (except for one) were done by women
              - All shoots (except for the same one) were done by house photographers.

              I think they are too integral to the nature of the site, as well as to Abby's vision, to change.

              IMHO if we do as Min suggests then we lose what makes us so special. We start competing against the mega-sites, we lose. We maintain our unique and quirky personality, we win.

              Comment


                #8
                arsby,
                Why should the fact that all shoots are done in Australia be too integral to the nature of the site to change? I can't see why shoots that are true to the "unique and quirky personality" of the site couldn't be done elsewhere.

                Comment


                  #9
                  east european content

                  i do not see the need for you to import the East European photographers. they have become so startingly similar that it hardly
                  matters which site you are in, very little style innovation has been added. i like your quirky style. i find this site to be a
                  great breath of fresh air in the showing of the beauty of women. i did not know that all your photographers are women but it
                  certainly shows in how the ladies are shown. i think adding the east european style will distance yourself from the fresh
                  perspective you offer.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by yoledey View Post
                    Why should the fact that all shoots are done in Australia be too integral to the nature of the site to change?
                    The entry page specifies AW is about "original amateur Australian girls." True, it is possible to have the same type of content elsewhere in the world, but as someone who lives half a world away from Oz, I feel like I visit there every time I download material or read the boards. The Australian ethos makes AW what it is.

                    In a long-ago post which I can't locate at the moment, I compared AW to any of the well-known "art nude" sites that use predominately Eastern European girls. Yes, they are beautiful, and beautifully presented, but they are also likely airbrushed, fixed in Photoshop, and generally placed on the pedestal of idealized beauty to be admired from afar. And yes, they work cheap, but the "I'm only doing this to collect a paycheck" mechanical boredom of a professional model or cash-strapped student is often quite evident. Abby's girls are real, right down to the occasional dirty fingernail, pimple, etc. In general, from what I can determine, most of them do it for more than just the money, which makes a huge difference.

                    HM

                    Comment


                      #11
                      generalisations

                      Japanese porno is bizarre but pixellated. Brazilians love the lady boys. The French spend too much time. Germans are their own culture. Lately, I have taken a liking to Czech girls (only second to all the AW Aussie girls.)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hello everybody, I just would like to mention that Czech republic does not belong to Eastern Europe, but Central Europe. But lots of people make this mistake.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Viera View Post
                          Hello everybody, I just would like to mention that Czech republic does not belong to Eastern Europe, but Central Europe. But lots of people make this mistake.
                          Myea, that + some of the most beautiful (blonde) & nice girls I have ever met were from there.

                          There must be something special in the water there or something.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Bondii View Post
                            There must be something special in the water there or something.
                            No, it's in the Pilsener (beer) there.....

                            doinel

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Havemercy View Post
                              The Australian ethos makes AW what it is.
                              I disagree. As long as you don’t identify something about Australian ethniticity that makes Australian girls superior for the AW style of pornography, there is no reason to assume that the value of the site would have been any less if the models were not Australian.

                              If Abby had lived in Nigeria, she could have set up a similar site with “original amateur Nigerian girls”, and it would have been the same as the actual AW in all important aspects (well, there might have been some technical and legal obstacles in Nigeria, but never mind). Of course, then we would be used to the girls being Nigerian, speaking with a Nigerian accent, relating stories from Nigerian life, and so on. And that would have had its charm, just as the fact that the actual models at AW are Australian has its charm.

                              So can you offer any reason why the uniqueness of AW should rely on its featuring Australian content only?

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Viera View Post
                                Hello everybody, I just would like to mention that Czech republic does not belong to Eastern Europe, but Central Europe. But lots of people make this mistake.
                                Hello Viera - I wanted to say that wherever the Czech Republic is located, you are one of the most beautiful, adorable, delightful sexy ladies to appear on AW for some time. You make a year's subscription more than worthwhile and I hope we will see more of you.

                                XX

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by yoledey View Post
                                  I disagree.
                                  So we disagree. No harm there. Cheers, yoledey.

                                  HM

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Viera View Post
                                    Hello everybody, I just would like to mention that Czech republic does not belong to Eastern Europe, but Central Europe. But lots of people make this mistake.
                                    Therefore those of us who don't want to see models from Eastern Europe can still look at Viera

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by yoledey View Post
                                      So can you offer any reason why the uniqueness of AW should rely on its featuring Australian content only?
                                      Not so much a reason as a fact: Because that's the way Abby wants it. Her vision is what makes AW.com the unique experience that it is, and for her, "Australian" is integral to that unique experience.

                                      Personally, I agree with others who criticize the sites that have gone Eastern European... the models tend to act bored and look homogenized (and sound Eastern European).

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by arsby View Post
                                        Not so much a reason as a fact: Because that's the way Abby wants it.
                                        We can assume that she originally designed the site the way she wanted it. Consequently, if that is taken as a fact, any suggestions for changes can be rejected on that same ground. If, on the other hand, we assume that this board is here because there is a possibility that “the way Abby wants it” is not written in stone but can change over time, for instance when influenced by arguments brought forward in this forum, then these discussions are not completely meaningless.

                                        That said, I do recognize that there are some core values of AW that any suggested change must be compatible with. For that reason, it is permissible, I think, to reject an idea, if you can make an argument as to how the suggested change might constitute an infringement on those core values. Just saying “Abby wants it that way” is quite unconstructive and discouraging in my opinion.

                                        Actually, I have no particular point of view regarding the addition of Eastern European content. I just found the supposition of Australianness being integral to the uniqueness of the site ill founded and a bit unsympathetic, so I questioned it.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          I find the discussion of adding models of Eastern Europe (or elsewhere) on a regular basis to this site a little bit academic. AW.com has just opened a local branch in Sydney to widen its recruiting area for new models. As far as I can see there is no shortcoming of models in Melbourne either. As we all know they are not only Australian girls, but many backpackers from Europe (and elsewhere) too. So why on earth should Abby look overseas for a solution of problems she doesn't has?

                                          doinel

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by yoledey View Post
                                            So can you offer any reason why the uniqueness of AW should rely on its featuring Australian content only?
                                            Easy, watch:

                                            img tag disable, use attachment mgr/system to add images to postshttp://www.abbywinters.com/tour/images/nav/tourtitle1.gif
                                            (unedited image straight from the site, I *could* add a pointy red arrow to indicate the relevant part of course )

                                            See?? That is how this site has defined itself to the outside world, would be risky to change it that much. Besides, adding Non-Western-European (heh) content wouldn't exactly increase the uniqueness. And indeed the style of a lot of photographers there is bit too similar and doesn't lend itself well to shooting new/amateur girls (as erodite said much earlier already )

                                            As I understand it Australia is populair destanation for youngsters all over the world to visit for some time when they're around 20 years old. Makes a perfect country to stay in, let all the young and pretty models come to you :-)

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              When I saw Abby’s work for the first time, I wanted to get on a plane to Australia to find one of the girls for myself. Abby changed my perception of a continent full of women. I’ve since given up on the idea of looking for a girl in Australia, but definitely have my sights set on an extended vacation there.

                                              We’ve never seen East European photography in Abby’s style. But the reason we’ve never seen it is because there hasn’t been a buyer for it. There is not something fundamentally flawed about all of East Europe. If the photographers there could make money by photographing dirty fingernails, they would quickly arrange to do exactly that.

                                              Business opportunities are usually not obvious at first. If it was obvious, the competition would already be climbing all over it, and the profit margin would be squeezed out of it.

                                              I am saying that there is a non-obvious opportunity just lying there. A part of the world can produce in Abby’s style, even though it never has before, and can do so inexpensively.

                                              Why would we bother with more content when Australian sources are plenty already? Well, why not? For one reason, more is more. A lot of sites boast a higher update rate than Abby. This is one way to catch up as AW works its way up to the more massive sites. For another reason, East and Central Europe has a high proportion of very beautiful girls. I’d subscribe to an EE content section, if it was shown in AW style.

                                              Then too, this is potentially a profitable nook that Abby could occupy by way of diversification. Having three operations is a better buffer than having two, when one of them is experiencing trouble. Given the low cost of East European sources, an EE content section at AW might turn out to be the most profitable corner of Abby’s entire business, providing cash that would enable AW to dream up new content ideas devoted to Australians.

                                              Most new ideas are resisted at first. It seems that the resistance is strongest for the ideas that are exceptionally bad, and those that are exceptionally good. I’m just asking you to keep an open mind for a while, and consider something that never has existed, but might.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Minotaur,

                                                I agree there are some very beautiful women in EE. I watched a documentary (from a highly respected news source) that since the since the collapse of Communism, the mafia have mostly controlled any sex trade activity, including models. Try doing a well placed seach on the internet and you will come up with many, many articles. IMHO - If these articles hold water, there is a fundimental morality issue with treatment of women in those parts of the world. I personally cannot get my head around the abuse and injustice of what was shown.

                                                Sorry for the hightened reaction, however I like A/W due to the willingness and innocence of the models and policy of the site.

                                                Cheers,

                                                rt...

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by minotaur View Post
                                                  Why would we bother with more content when Australian sources are plenty already? Well, why not? For one reason, more is more. A lot of sites boast a higher update rate than Abby. This is one way
                                                  to catch up as AW works its way up to the more massive sites.
                                                  The update rate is high enough as it is in my opinion. Why would you want to catch up to those massive site which buy sets from photographers all around the world anyway? One of the main ideas of the site is that all the shoots are done by AW staff, in person. Buying shoots is an easy way to increase volume, sure but quality ?
                                                  (you would get ATK kind of problems with large differences between sets and such)

                                                  Originally posted by minotaur View Post
                                                  Having three operations is a better buffer than having two, when one of them is experiencing trouble.
                                                  True, but if NONE of them are experiencing trouble you have to run them ALL three which can be a problem.

                                                  Originally posted by minotaur View Post
                                                  Given the low cost of East European sources, an EE content section at AW might turn out to be the most profitable corner of Abby’s entire business, providing cash that would enable AW to dream up new content ideas devoted to Australians.
                                                  I don't like the 'low cost' factor, just doesn't sound right to me. I doubt new/more funding is needed for new content anyway.

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by fransAW View Post
                                                    ...(you would get ATK kind of problems with large differences between sets and such)...
                                                    ...and trust me, you DON'T want that happening here. In my Usenet lurking I've seen several CD's (and even DVD's) worth of stills and vids by ATK, Kara-pcs, and Teenflood (trivia: Abby shot some sets for them in the early 00's), all of which sub-contract their content.
                                                    In terms of their models, some are sweet-looking amateur types; and some are obviously pros, pouting and grimacing through the sets, too much makeup, lingerie all the way through. The quality of a few of the image sets is excellent, AW quality. And some just suck. Most are middling, not AW quality.

                                                    AW.com is a site where we know what we're getting in terms of models and quality, we don't need to wade through the slime to get to the few treasures. That's what you get by controlling your own content, and, Yoleday, there's your argument to keep EE (and other non-house) content out of AW.

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Randomthoughts View Post
                                                      since the collapse of Communism, the mafia have mostly controlled any sex trade activity, including models.
                                                      The mafia question deserves some follow up. I don’t know the answer, but someone who probably does is Eolake Stobblehouse, founder of Domai. Domai buys from EE sources. Abby has a link to Domai.

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Randomthoughts View Post
                                                        ... the mafia have mostly controlled any sex trade activity, including models. Try doing a well placed seach on the internet and you will come up with many, many articles...
                                                        I tried and all I came up with were a bunch of articles about child porn and a few about human trafficking, where poor women from EE are convinced to move to Western Europe knowing they will be hired for the sex trade, but then have their documentation stolen and are retained as virtual slaves. Both of those practices are hideous, but I didn't see an indication where the "mafia have mostly controlled any sex trade activity." It doesn't seem pervasive at all. Could you give some links, or your google search terms?

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          Hi all,

                                                          My apologies for the term Mafia. Maybe we all associate it with that Sopranos "Italian thing" however I heard it on a broader term in the documentary. Here is a secondary usage for term Mafia under a various ethnicity across another culture or country
                                                          I think they were not so much referring to the Russians, but the other breakaway nations as well have formed gangs.
                                                          I am not militant on the terminology - just wishing to share what I viewed and what may be happening in these areas to women. Again - not meant to raise hackels up - just my 2 cents of what I viewed, and the term was mafia.
                                                          I cannot remember the actual program, but will TIME magazine be ok to reference on a related article?
                                                          Here is an article that does showcase the industry as a business in a purified light. In summary, I like the way girls answer a newspaper article or get approached on the street and enter on their own accord. Not followed by a pimp.
                                                          Anyway...I cannot confirm or deny the existence of bad guys there although ya gotta think...

                                                          Again - no flares - just conversation because I am sitting here in Canada and don't have a clue unless it is in the media.

                                                          rt...

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            Perhaps "Organized Crime" would be a better catchphrase?

                                                            Comment

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