transgender models?

[renae_d]

Well spotted Maddie! Definitely excited to check out this shoot, and so far love the pic they chose.

[kristiana]

I think that there is no such thing as "shame" and "right" or "wrong" to this topic. Yes, pretty controversial, but this is the first aim to decide is are we here to celebrate the divercity of human body or to broadcast labels? One wise dictum that I try to stick to in my life is "Every person has a battle to face, so don`t judge him".
Yes, of cource, you have the right to have your own oppinion, but you always have to express it in a way that wouldn`t hurt a person.

[Jacksonpe49]

The shoot seems to have been postponed. Garion said October 11, and it kept getting closer on the Upcoming Shoots widget, but now it’s a week away. Any reason?

[renae_d]

On the upside, there's now a preview video and Haley looks even cuter!

[Frans]

The shoot seems to have been postponed. Garion said October 11, and it kept getting closer on the Upcoming Shoots widget, but now it’s a week away. Any reason?

Tech issue with video, shoot was moved to 20/21-oct to fix that properly.

[Jacksonpe49]

So does that mean that Haley is going to be next week’s new model. Garion said that wasn’t going to happen and the trans girl was going to be a bonus shoot. But there’s no other new model next week in the Upcoming Shoots.

[Frans]

So does that mean that Haley is going to be next week’s new model

Nope, Ciara D is next week's new model. Besides that keep in mind not *all* upcoming shoots are visible that far ahead, gotta keep some surprises

[Jacksonpe49]

I was counting Ciara as this week's new model. But I see Danya has appeared for next week.

[kristiana]

I started to keep my eye more closely on the upcoming realising shoots thanks to this thread. Well, the more we wait, the bigger the surprise will be, fingers crossed

[Jacksonpe49]

So near yet so far!

Haley was scheduled for 11 October, then for tonight, and now the shoot is 3 days away!

Will it ever actually appear?

[kristiana]

Uh oh, this shoot gets more and more interest arround it. Something new and unusual draws so much exciement, this shoot was kinda tricky in technical way, I assume....

[Frans]

Uh oh, this shoot gets more and more interest arround it. Something new and unusual draws so much exciement, this shoot was kinda tricky in technical way, I assume....

It has two videos instead of the usual one. That's causing some tech issues, which are harder to resolve than anticipated. Sorry!

[SaharaAW]

I'm not sure how this goes really. I thought Abby Winters is all about natural girls enjoying themselves (originally). Might as well change the meaning if they allow to see trans, non-binary etc. I know people like to see transgender models. For me I don't mind it. The downside is that it will lose members but at the same time other members will join then be interested in trans and other stuff.
Unless they should make another website that is like Abby Winters but with trans and all of that. I personally think it's my idea. What do you guys think?
I'm being honest.

"girl" is still kind of a gender identity, in my opinion. I don't see why not? Whats the issue besides some straight dude's personal ego/preference/blah blah blah?

[garionhall]

Hey Saraha, nice to see you around, it's been a while!

Whats the issue besides some straight dude's personal ego/preference/blah blah blah?

The issue is, if we don't make customers happy, we go out of business!

[TallulahAW]

Sahara, I think that's a really good point regarding "girl" being a gender identity. The definition and expectations society has of "girls" keeps changing. In the context of this specific website, the category of "girl" has been constructed by gatekeepers with a set of criteria which is subject to change. This includes legal criteria (as soon as a "girl" turns 18, she is legally a woman, but she is only then legally eligible to be an Abby Winters girl!), social attitudes, aesthetic principles, and ideas around femininity and beauty etc. Not everyone with a vagina gets to be an Abby Winters girl.

In Western culture, historically speaking, women having sex with women wasn't seen as beautiful or natural or feminine. It was seen as a disgusting perversion of nature and against the natural order, and a mockery of "true" sex. Young women doing this were not seen as girls (with all the social palatability and attractiveness that implies) but as mentally ill, led astray from virture, or were regarded as the "third gender" which was to say they fell outside of the culturally acceptable gender binary and were second class citizens.

How things have changed. I bet that absolutely zero of AW members believe these things today!

When I'm working for AW I get to lean into my "girl" side and I am identified as a girl. I'm not talking specifically about femininity here, I'm talking about certain aspects of my personality that I feel are girly. But if someone called me a "girl" in the course of my office job I'd feel very small. In that context it is essential that I'm regarded as a woman. Not a girl, or a young lady, but a woman.

"Girl" is a very loaded term for women in many contexts. Here, I'm very happy to be identified as a girl and identify myself as such, but it would put me at a disadvantage to be identified as a girl in most other aspects of my life.

In response to Maybmayb, you can't actually know if any of the models here are non-binary or not. Garion said himself that the criteria for models is "has a vagina" and plenty of NB people are born with vaginas. Some of these people might accept being identified as girls for the purpose of sex work.

[Jacksonpe49]

There are several issues really. Garion is very understandably focussed on the commercial question: will membership increase or decrease? I’ve mentioned a concern about Haley: as a transsexual model, will people look at her to appreciate her for who she is, or out of curiosity? And might there be some unkind comments? And another one is that AW is a site presenting natural models, whereas Haley has undergone radical surgery to become the way she is.

Personally I don’t think trans models are my cup of tea, but if Garion is happy and Haley is happy then fine, go right ahead.

[Frans]

Haley was scheduled for 11 October, then for tonight, and now the shoot is 3 days away!

Will it ever actually appear?

Stills just went live, happy viewing!

[Ruthenicmike88]

I would love for some transgender people on this site, its no different to showing a guy's penis, anyone who dislikes it arent welcome, assuming the person in question doesnt mind showing ther penis.

[aiyana]

I think this would be a great idea :-)

[Skin25]

Is there a link for this transgender shoot?

[Frans]

Is there a link for this transgender shoot?

Skin25 yup; https://www.abbywinters.com/nude_gir...mateur/haley_h